From: Joerg Roedel <joro@8bytes.org> To: Jason Gunthorpe <jgg@nvidia.com> Cc: "Tian, Kevin" <kevin.tian@intel.com>, "Alex Williamson (alex.williamson@redhat.com)" <alex.williamson@redhat.com>, Jean-Philippe Brucker <jean-philippe@linaro.org>, David Gibson <david@gibson.dropbear.id.au>, Jason Wang <jasowang@redhat.com>, "parav@mellanox.com" <parav@mellanox.com>, "Enrico Weigelt, metux IT consult" <lkml@metux.net>, Paolo Bonzini <pbonzini@redhat.com>, Shenming Lu <lushenming@huawei.com>, Eric Auger <eric.auger@redhat.com>, Jonathan Corbet <corbet@lwn.net>, "Raj, Ashok" <ashok.raj@intel.com>, "Liu, Yi L" <yi.l.liu@intel.com>, "Wu, Hao" <hao.wu@intel.com>, "Jiang, Dave" <dave.jiang@intel.com>, Jacob Pan <jacob.jun.pan@linux.intel.com>, Kirti Wankhede <kwankhede@nvidia.com>, Robin Murphy <robin.murphy@arm.com>, "kvm@vger.kernel.org" <kvm@vger.kernel.org>, "iommu@lists.linux-foundation.org" <iommu@lists.linux-foundation.org>, David Woodhouse <dwmw2@infradead.org>, LKML <linux-kernel@vger.kernel.org>, Lu Baolu <baolu.lu@linux.intel.com> Subject: Re: Plan for /dev/ioasid RFC v2 Date: Wed, 9 Jun 2021 15:32:34 +0200 [thread overview] Message-ID: <YMDC8tOMvw4FtSek@8bytes.org> (raw) In-Reply-To: <20210609123919.GA1002214@nvidia.com> On Wed, Jun 09, 2021 at 09:39:19AM -0300, Jason Gunthorpe wrote: > VFIO being group centric has made it very ugly/difficult to inject > device driver specific knowledge into the scheme. This whole API will be complicated and difficult anyway, so no reason to unnecessarily simplify things here. VFIO is group-centric for security/isolation reasons, and since IOASID is a uAPI it also needs to account for that. In the end the devices which are going to use this will likely have their own group anyway, so things will not get too complicated. > The current approach has the group try to guess the device driver > intention in the vfio type 1 code. > > I want to see this be clean and have the device driver directly tell > the iommu layer what kind of DMA it plans to do, and thus how it needs > the IOMMU and IOASID configured. I am in for the general idea, it simplifies the code. But the kernel still needs to check whether the wishlist from user-space can be fulfilled. > The group is causing all this mess because the group knows nothing > about what the device drivers contained in the group actually want. There are devices in the group, not drivers. > Further being group centric eliminates the possibility of working in > cases like !ACS. How do I use PASID functionality of a device behind a > !ACS switch if the uAPI forces all IOASID's to be linked to a group, > not a device? You don't use it, because it is not secure for devices which are not behind an ACS bridge. > Device centric with an report that "all devices in the group must use > the same IOASID" covers all the new functionality, keep the old, and > has a better chance to keep going as a uAPI into the future. If all devices in the group have to use the same IOASID anyway, we can just as well force it by making the interface group-centric. Regards, Joerg
WARNING: multiple messages have this Message-ID (diff)
From: Joerg Roedel <joro@8bytes.org> To: Jason Gunthorpe <jgg@nvidia.com> Cc: "kvm@vger.kernel.org" <kvm@vger.kernel.org>, Jason Wang <jasowang@redhat.com>, Kirti Wankhede <kwankhede@nvidia.com>, Jean-Philippe Brucker <jean-philippe@linaro.org>, "Jiang, Dave" <dave.jiang@intel.com>, "Raj, Ashok" <ashok.raj@intel.com>, Jonathan Corbet <corbet@lwn.net>, "Tian, Kevin" <kevin.tian@intel.com>, "parav@mellanox.com" <parav@mellanox.com>, "Alex Williamson \(alex.williamson@redhat.com\)" <alex.williamson@redhat.com>, "Enrico Weigelt, metux IT consult" <lkml@metux.net>, David Gibson <david@gibson.dropbear.id.au>, Robin Murphy <robin.murphy@arm.com>, LKML <linux-kernel@vger.kernel.org>, Shenming Lu <lushenming@huawei.com>, "iommu@lists.linux-foundation.org" <iommu@lists.linux-foundation.org>, Paolo Bonzini <pbonzini@redhat.com>, David Woodhouse <dwmw2@infradead.org> Subject: Re: Plan for /dev/ioasid RFC v2 Date: Wed, 9 Jun 2021 15:32:34 +0200 [thread overview] Message-ID: <YMDC8tOMvw4FtSek@8bytes.org> (raw) In-Reply-To: <20210609123919.GA1002214@nvidia.com> On Wed, Jun 09, 2021 at 09:39:19AM -0300, Jason Gunthorpe wrote: > VFIO being group centric has made it very ugly/difficult to inject > device driver specific knowledge into the scheme. This whole API will be complicated and difficult anyway, so no reason to unnecessarily simplify things here. VFIO is group-centric for security/isolation reasons, and since IOASID is a uAPI it also needs to account for that. In the end the devices which are going to use this will likely have their own group anyway, so things will not get too complicated. > The current approach has the group try to guess the device driver > intention in the vfio type 1 code. > > I want to see this be clean and have the device driver directly tell > the iommu layer what kind of DMA it plans to do, and thus how it needs > the IOMMU and IOASID configured. I am in for the general idea, it simplifies the code. But the kernel still needs to check whether the wishlist from user-space can be fulfilled. > The group is causing all this mess because the group knows nothing > about what the device drivers contained in the group actually want. There are devices in the group, not drivers. > Further being group centric eliminates the possibility of working in > cases like !ACS. How do I use PASID functionality of a device behind a > !ACS switch if the uAPI forces all IOASID's to be linked to a group, > not a device? You don't use it, because it is not secure for devices which are not behind an ACS bridge. > Device centric with an report that "all devices in the group must use > the same IOASID" covers all the new functionality, keep the old, and > has a better chance to keep going as a uAPI into the future. If all devices in the group have to use the same IOASID anyway, we can just as well force it by making the interface group-centric. Regards, Joerg _______________________________________________ iommu mailing list iommu@lists.linux-foundation.org https://lists.linuxfoundation.org/mailman/listinfo/iommu
next prev parent reply other threads:[~2021-06-09 13:32 UTC|newest] Thread overview: 162+ messages / expand[flat|nested] mbox.gz Atom feed top 2021-06-07 2:58 Plan for /dev/ioasid RFC v2 Tian, Kevin 2021-06-07 2:58 ` Tian, Kevin 2021-06-09 8:14 ` Eric Auger 2021-06-09 8:14 ` Eric Auger 2021-06-09 9:37 ` Tian, Kevin 2021-06-09 9:37 ` Tian, Kevin 2021-06-09 10:14 ` Eric Auger 2021-06-09 10:14 ` Eric Auger 2021-06-09 9:01 ` Leon Romanovsky 2021-06-09 9:01 ` Leon Romanovsky 2021-06-09 9:43 ` Tian, Kevin 2021-06-09 9:43 ` Tian, Kevin 2021-06-09 12:24 ` Joerg Roedel 2021-06-09 12:24 ` Joerg Roedel 2021-06-09 12:39 ` Jason Gunthorpe 2021-06-09 12:39 ` Jason Gunthorpe 2021-06-09 13:32 ` Joerg Roedel [this message] 2021-06-09 13:32 ` Joerg Roedel 2021-06-09 15:00 ` Jason Gunthorpe 2021-06-09 15:00 ` Jason Gunthorpe 2021-06-09 15:51 ` Joerg Roedel 2021-06-09 15:51 ` Joerg Roedel 2021-06-09 16:15 ` Alex Williamson 2021-06-09 16:15 ` Alex Williamson 2021-06-09 16:27 ` Alex Williamson 2021-06-09 16:27 ` Alex Williamson 2021-06-09 18:49 ` Jason Gunthorpe 2021-06-09 18:49 ` Jason Gunthorpe 2021-06-10 15:38 ` Alex Williamson 2021-06-10 15:38 ` Alex Williamson 2021-06-11 0:58 ` Tian, Kevin 2021-06-11 0:58 ` Tian, Kevin 2021-06-11 21:38 ` Alex Williamson 2021-06-11 21:38 ` Alex Williamson 2021-06-14 3:09 ` Tian, Kevin 2021-06-14 3:09 ` Tian, Kevin 2021-06-14 3:22 ` Alex Williamson 2021-06-14 3:22 ` Alex Williamson 2021-06-15 1:05 ` Tian, Kevin 2021-06-15 1:05 ` Tian, Kevin 2021-06-14 13:38 ` Jason Gunthorpe 2021-06-14 13:38 ` Jason Gunthorpe 2021-06-15 1:21 ` Tian, Kevin 2021-06-15 1:21 ` Tian, Kevin 2021-06-15 16:56 ` Alex Williamson 2021-06-15 16:56 ` Alex Williamson 2021-06-16 6:53 ` Tian, Kevin 2021-06-16 6:53 ` Tian, Kevin 2021-06-24 4:50 ` David Gibson 2021-06-24 4:50 ` David Gibson 2021-06-11 16:45 ` Jason Gunthorpe 2021-06-11 16:45 ` Jason Gunthorpe 2021-06-11 19:38 ` Alex Williamson 2021-06-11 19:38 ` Alex Williamson 2021-06-12 1:28 ` Jason Gunthorpe 2021-06-12 1:28 ` Jason Gunthorpe 2021-06-12 16:57 ` Alex Williamson 2021-06-12 16:57 ` Alex Williamson 2021-06-14 14:07 ` Jason Gunthorpe 2021-06-14 14:07 ` Jason Gunthorpe 2021-06-14 16:28 ` Alex Williamson 2021-06-14 16:28 ` Alex Williamson 2021-06-14 19:40 ` Jason Gunthorpe 2021-06-14 19:40 ` Jason Gunthorpe 2021-06-15 2:31 ` Tian, Kevin 2021-06-15 2:31 ` Tian, Kevin 2021-06-15 16:12 ` Alex Williamson 2021-06-15 16:12 ` Alex Williamson 2021-06-16 6:43 ` Tian, Kevin 2021-06-16 6:43 ` Tian, Kevin 2021-06-16 19:39 ` Alex Williamson 2021-06-16 19:39 ` Alex Williamson 2021-06-17 3:39 ` Liu Yi L 2021-06-17 3:39 ` Liu Yi L 2021-06-17 7:31 ` Tian, Kevin 2021-06-17 7:31 ` Tian, Kevin 2021-06-17 21:14 ` Alex Williamson 2021-06-17 21:14 ` Alex Williamson 2021-06-18 0:19 ` Jason Gunthorpe 2021-06-18 0:19 ` Jason Gunthorpe 2021-06-18 16:57 ` Tian, Kevin 2021-06-18 16:57 ` Tian, Kevin 2021-06-18 18:23 ` Jason Gunthorpe 2021-06-18 18:23 ` Jason Gunthorpe 2021-06-25 10:27 ` Tian, Kevin 2021-06-25 10:27 ` Tian, Kevin 2021-06-25 14:36 ` Jason Gunthorpe 2021-06-25 14:36 ` Jason Gunthorpe 2021-06-28 1:09 ` Tian, Kevin 2021-06-28 1:09 ` Tian, Kevin 2021-06-28 22:31 ` Alex Williamson 2021-06-28 22:31 ` Alex Williamson 2021-06-28 22:48 ` Jason Gunthorpe 2021-06-28 22:48 ` Jason Gunthorpe 2021-06-28 23:09 ` Alex Williamson 2021-06-28 23:09 ` Alex Williamson 2021-06-28 23:13 ` Jason Gunthorpe 2021-06-28 23:13 ` Jason Gunthorpe 2021-06-29 0:26 ` Tian, Kevin 2021-06-29 0:26 ` Tian, Kevin 2021-06-29 0:28 ` Tian, Kevin 2021-06-29 0:28 ` Tian, Kevin 2021-06-29 0:43 ` Tian, Kevin 2021-06-29 0:43 ` Tian, Kevin 2021-06-28 2:03 ` Tian, Kevin 2021-06-28 2:03 ` Tian, Kevin 2021-06-28 14:41 ` Jason Gunthorpe 2021-06-28 14:41 ` Jason Gunthorpe 2021-06-28 6:45 ` Tian, Kevin 2021-06-28 6:45 ` Tian, Kevin 2021-06-28 16:26 ` Jason Gunthorpe 2021-06-28 16:26 ` Jason Gunthorpe 2021-06-24 4:26 ` David Gibson 2021-06-24 4:26 ` David Gibson 2021-06-24 5:59 ` Tian, Kevin 2021-06-24 5:59 ` Tian, Kevin 2021-06-24 12:22 ` Lu Baolu 2021-06-24 12:22 ` Lu Baolu 2021-06-24 4:23 ` David Gibson 2021-06-24 4:23 ` David Gibson 2021-06-18 0:52 ` Jason Gunthorpe 2021-06-18 0:52 ` Jason Gunthorpe 2021-06-18 13:47 ` Joerg Roedel 2021-06-18 13:47 ` Joerg Roedel 2021-06-18 15:15 ` Jason Gunthorpe 2021-06-18 15:15 ` Jason Gunthorpe 2021-06-18 15:37 ` Raj, Ashok 2021-06-18 15:37 ` Raj, Ashok 2021-06-18 15:51 ` Alex Williamson 2021-06-18 15:51 ` Alex Williamson 2021-06-24 4:29 ` David Gibson 2021-06-24 4:29 ` David Gibson 2021-06-24 11:56 ` Jason Gunthorpe 2021-06-24 11:56 ` Jason Gunthorpe 2021-06-18 0:10 ` Jason Gunthorpe 2021-06-18 0:10 ` Jason Gunthorpe 2021-06-17 5:29 ` David Gibson 2021-06-17 5:29 ` David Gibson 2021-06-17 5:02 ` David Gibson 2021-06-17 5:02 ` David Gibson 2021-06-17 23:04 ` Jason Gunthorpe 2021-06-17 23:04 ` Jason Gunthorpe 2021-06-24 4:37 ` David Gibson 2021-06-24 4:37 ` David Gibson 2021-06-24 11:57 ` Jason Gunthorpe 2021-06-24 11:57 ` Jason Gunthorpe 2021-06-10 5:50 ` Lu Baolu 2021-06-10 5:50 ` Lu Baolu 2021-06-17 5:22 ` David Gibson 2021-06-17 5:22 ` David Gibson 2021-06-18 5:21 ` Lu Baolu 2021-06-18 5:21 ` Lu Baolu 2021-06-24 4:03 ` David Gibson 2021-06-24 4:03 ` David Gibson 2021-06-24 13:42 ` Lu Baolu 2021-06-24 13:42 ` Lu Baolu 2021-06-17 4:45 ` David Gibson 2021-06-17 4:45 ` David Gibson 2021-06-17 23:10 ` Jason Gunthorpe 2021-06-17 23:10 ` Jason Gunthorpe 2021-06-24 4:07 ` David Gibson 2021-06-24 4:07 ` David Gibson
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