From: Sean Christopherson <seanjc@google.com>
To: Xiaoyao Li <xiaoyao.li@intel.com>
Cc: "Paolo Bonzini" <pbonzini@redhat.com>,
"Marc Zyngier" <maz@kernel.org>,
"Oliver Upton" <oliver.upton@linux.dev>,
"Huacai Chen" <chenhuacai@kernel.org>,
"Michael Ellerman" <mpe@ellerman.id.au>,
"Anup Patel" <anup@brainfault.org>,
"Paul Walmsley" <paul.walmsley@sifive.com>,
"Palmer Dabbelt" <palmer@dabbelt.com>,
"Albert Ou" <aou@eecs.berkeley.edu>,
"Alexander Viro" <viro@zeniv.linux.org.uk>,
"Christian Brauner" <brauner@kernel.org>,
"Matthew Wilcox (Oracle)" <willy@infradead.org>,
"Andrew Morton" <akpm@linux-foundation.org>,
kvm@vger.kernel.org, linux-arm-kernel@lists.infradead.org,
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"Xu Yilun" <yilun.xu@intel.com>,
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"Fuad Tabba" <tabba@google.com>,
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"Anish Moorthy" <amoorthy@google.com>,
"David Matlack" <dmatlack@google.com>,
"Yu Zhang" <yu.c.zhang@linux.intel.com>,
"Isaku Yamahata" <isaku.yamahata@intel.com>,
"Mickaël Salaün" <mic@digikod.net>,
"Vlastimil Babka" <vbabka@suse.cz>,
"Vishal Annapurve" <vannapurve@google.com>,
"Ackerley Tng" <ackerleytng@google.com>,
"Maciej Szmigiero" <mail@maciej.szmigiero.name>,
"David Hildenbrand" <david@redhat.com>,
"Quentin Perret" <qperret@google.com>,
"Michael Roth" <michael.roth@amd.com>,
Wang <wei.w.wang@intel.com>,
"Liam Merwick" <liam.merwick@oracle.com>,
"Isaku Yamahata" <isaku.yamahata@gmail.com>,
"Kirill A . Shutemov" <kirill.shutemov@linux.intel.com>
Subject: Re: [PATCH v13 17/35] KVM: Add transparent hugepage support for dedicated guest memory
Date: Wed, 1 Nov 2023 06:41:45 -0700 [thread overview]
Message-ID: <ZUJVfCkIYYFp5VwG@google.com> (raw)
In-Reply-To: <92ba7ddd-2bc8-4a8d-bd67-d6614b21914f@intel.com>
On Wed, Nov 01, 2023, Xiaoyao Li wrote:
> On 10/31/2023 10:16 PM, Sean Christopherson wrote:
> > On Tue, Oct 31, 2023, Xiaoyao Li wrote:
> > > On 10/28/2023 2:21 AM, Sean Christopherson wrote:
> > > > Extended guest_memfd to allow backing guest memory with transparent
> > > > hugepages. Require userspace to opt-in via a flag even though there's no
> > > > known/anticipated use case for forcing small pages as THP is optional,
> > > > i.e. to avoid ending up in a situation where userspace is unaware that
> > > > KVM can't provide hugepages.
> > >
> > > Personally, it seems not so "transparent" if requiring userspace to opt-in.
> > >
> > > People need to 1) check if the kernel built with TRANSPARENT_HUGEPAGE
> > > support, or check is the sysfs of transparent hugepage exists; 2)get the
> > > maximum support hugepage size 3) ensure the size satisfies the alignment;
> > > before opt-in it.
> > >
> > > Even simpler, userspace can blindly try to create guest memfd with
> > > transparent hugapage flag. If getting error, fallback to create without the
> > > transparent hugepage flag.
> > >
> > > However, it doesn't look transparent to me.
> >
> > The "transparent" part is referring to the underlying kernel mechanism, it's not
> > saying anything about the API. The "transparent" part of THP is that the kernel
> > doesn't guarantee hugepages, i.e. whether or not hugepages are actually used is
> > (mostly) transparent to userspace.
> >
> > Paolo also isn't the biggest fan[*], but there are also downsides to always
> > allowing hugepages, e.g. silent failure due to lack of THP or unaligned size,
> > and there's precedent in the form of MADV_HUGEPAGE.
> >
> > [*] https://lore.kernel.org/all/84a908ae-04c7-51c7-c9a8-119e1933a189@redhat.com
>
> But it's different than MADV_HUGEPAGE, in a way. Per my understanding, the
> failure of MADV_HUGEPAGE is not fatal, user space can ignore it and
> continue.
>
> However, the failure of KVM_GUEST_MEMFD_ALLOW_HUGEPAGE is fatal, which leads
> to failure of guest memfd creation.
Failing KVM_CREATE_GUEST_MEMFD isn't truly fatal, it just requires different
action from userspace, i.e. instead of ignoring the error, userspace could redo
KVM_CREATE_GUEST_MEMFD with KVM_GUEST_MEMFD_ALLOW_HUGEPAGE=0.
We could make the behavior more like MADV_HUGEPAGE, e.g. theoretically we could
extend fadvise() with FADV_HUGEPAGE, or add a guest_memfd knob/ioctl() to let
userspace provide advice/hints after creating a guest_memfd. But I suspect that
guest_memfd would be the only user of FADV_HUGEPAGE, and IMO a post-creation hint
is actually less desirable.
KVM_GUEST_MEMFD_ALLOW_HUGEPAGE will fail only if userspace didn't provide a
compatible size or the kernel doesn't support THP. An incompatible size is likely
a userspace bug, and for most setups that want to utilize guest_memfd, lack of THP
support is likely a configuration bug. I.e. many/most uses *want* failures due to
KVM_GUEST_MEMFD_ALLOW_HUGEPAGE to be fatal.
> For current implementation, I think maybe KVM_GUEST_MEMFD_DESIRE_HUGEPAGE
> fits better than KVM_GUEST_MEMFD_ALLOW_HUGEPAGE? or maybe *PREFER*?
Why? Verbs like "prefer" and "desire" aren't a good fit IMO because they suggest
the flag is a hint, and hints are usually best effort only, i.e. are ignored if
there is a fundamental incompatibility.
"Allow" isn't perfect, e.g. I would much prefer a straight KVM_GUEST_MEMFD_USE_HUGEPAGES
or KVM_GUEST_MEMFD_HUGEPAGES flag, but I wanted the name to convey that KVM doesn't
(yet) guarantee hugepages. I.e. KVM_GUEST_MEMFD_ALLOW_HUGEPAGE is stronger than
a hint, but weaker than a requirement. And if/when KVM supports a dedicated memory
pool of some kind, then we can add KVM_GUEST_MEMFD_REQUIRE_HUGEPAGE.
next prev parent reply other threads:[~2023-11-01 13:41 UTC|newest]
Thread overview: 148+ messages / expand[flat|nested] mbox.gz Atom feed top
2023-10-27 18:21 [PATCH v13 00/35] KVM: guest_memfd() and per-page attributes Sean Christopherson
2023-10-27 18:21 ` [PATCH v13 01/35] KVM: Tweak kvm_hva_range and hva_handler_t to allow reusing for gfn ranges Sean Christopherson
2023-11-01 12:46 ` Fuad Tabba
2023-10-27 18:21 ` [PATCH v13 02/35] KVM: Assert that mmu_invalidate_in_progress *never* goes negative Sean Christopherson
2023-10-30 16:27 ` Paolo Bonzini
2023-11-01 12:46 ` Fuad Tabba
2023-10-27 18:21 ` [PATCH v13 03/35] KVM: Use gfn instead of hva for mmu_notifier_retry Sean Christopherson
2023-10-30 16:30 ` Paolo Bonzini
2023-10-30 16:53 ` David Matlack
2023-10-30 17:00 ` Paolo Bonzini
2023-10-30 18:21 ` David Matlack
2023-10-30 18:19 ` David Matlack
2023-11-01 15:31 ` Xu Yilun
2023-10-27 18:21 ` [PATCH v13 04/35] KVM: WARN if there are dangling MMU invalidations at VM destruction Sean Christopherson
2023-10-30 16:32 ` Paolo Bonzini
2023-11-01 12:50 ` Fuad Tabba
2023-10-27 18:21 ` [PATCH v13 05/35] KVM: PPC: Drop dead code related to KVM_ARCH_WANT_MMU_NOTIFIER Sean Christopherson
2023-10-30 16:34 ` Paolo Bonzini
2023-11-01 12:51 ` Fuad Tabba
2023-10-27 18:21 ` [PATCH v13 06/35] KVM: PPC: Return '1' unconditionally for KVM_CAP_SYNC_MMU Sean Christopherson
2023-10-27 18:21 ` [PATCH v13 07/35] KVM: Convert KVM_ARCH_WANT_MMU_NOTIFIER to CONFIG_KVM_GENERIC_MMU_NOTIFIER Sean Christopherson
2023-10-30 16:37 ` Paolo Bonzini
2023-11-01 12:54 ` Fuad Tabba
2023-10-27 18:21 ` [PATCH v13 08/35] KVM: Introduce KVM_SET_USER_MEMORY_REGION2 Sean Christopherson
2023-10-30 16:41 ` Paolo Bonzini
2023-10-30 20:25 ` Sean Christopherson
2023-10-30 22:12 ` Sean Christopherson
2023-10-30 23:22 ` Paolo Bonzini
2023-10-31 0:18 ` Sean Christopherson
2023-10-31 2:26 ` Xiaoyao Li
2023-10-31 14:04 ` Sean Christopherson
2023-11-01 14:19 ` Fuad Tabba
2023-10-27 18:21 ` [PATCH v13 09/35] KVM: Add KVM_EXIT_MEMORY_FAULT exit to report faults to userspace Sean Christopherson
2023-10-30 17:22 ` Paolo Bonzini
2023-11-01 7:30 ` Binbin Wu
2023-11-01 10:52 ` Huang, Kai
2023-11-01 17:36 ` Sean Christopherson
2023-11-02 2:19 ` Xiaoyao Li
2023-11-02 15:51 ` Sean Christopherson
2023-11-02 3:17 ` Huang, Kai
2023-11-02 9:35 ` Huang, Kai
2023-11-02 11:03 ` Paolo Bonzini
2023-11-02 15:44 ` Sean Christopherson
2023-11-02 18:35 ` Huang, Kai
2023-11-02 15:56 ` Sean Christopherson
2023-11-02 11:01 ` Paolo Bonzini
2023-11-03 4:09 ` Xu Yilun
2023-10-27 18:21 ` [PATCH v13 10/35] KVM: Add a dedicated mmu_notifier flag for reclaiming freed memory Sean Christopherson
2023-10-30 17:11 ` Paolo Bonzini
2023-11-02 13:55 ` Fuad Tabba
2023-10-27 18:21 ` [PATCH v13 11/35] KVM: Drop .on_unlock() mmu_notifier hook Sean Christopherson
2023-10-30 17:18 ` Paolo Bonzini
2023-11-02 13:55 ` Fuad Tabba
2023-10-27 18:21 ` [PATCH v13 12/35] KVM: Prepare for handling only shared mappings in mmu_notifier events Sean Christopherson
2023-10-30 17:21 ` Paolo Bonzini
2023-10-30 22:07 ` Sean Christopherson
2023-11-02 5:59 ` Binbin Wu
2023-11-02 11:14 ` Paolo Bonzini
2023-11-02 14:01 ` Fuad Tabba
2023-11-02 14:41 ` Sean Christopherson
2023-11-02 14:57 ` Fuad Tabba
2023-10-27 18:21 ` [PATCH v13 13/35] KVM: Introduce per-page memory attributes Sean Christopherson
2023-10-30 8:11 ` Chao Gao
2023-10-30 16:10 ` Sean Christopherson
2023-10-30 22:05 ` Sean Christopherson
2023-10-31 16:43 ` David Matlack
2023-11-02 3:01 ` Huang, Kai
2023-11-02 10:32 ` Paolo Bonzini
2023-11-02 10:55 ` Huang, Kai
2023-10-27 18:21 ` [PATCH v13 14/35] mm: Add AS_UNMOVABLE to mark mapping as completely unmovable Sean Christopherson
2023-10-30 17:24 ` Paolo Bonzini
2023-10-27 18:21 ` [PATCH v13 15/35] fs: Export anon_inode_getfile_secure() for use by KVM Sean Christopherson
2023-10-30 17:30 ` Paolo Bonzini
2023-11-02 16:24 ` Christian Brauner
2023-11-03 10:40 ` Paolo Bonzini
2023-10-27 18:21 ` [PATCH v13 16/35] KVM: Add KVM_CREATE_GUEST_MEMFD ioctl() for guest-specific backing memory Sean Christopherson
2023-10-31 2:27 ` Xiaoyao Li
2023-10-31 6:30 ` Chao Gao
2023-10-31 14:10 ` Sean Christopherson
2023-10-31 15:05 ` Fuad Tabba
2023-10-31 22:13 ` Sean Christopherson
2023-10-31 22:18 ` Paolo Bonzini
2023-11-01 10:51 ` Fuad Tabba
2023-11-01 21:55 ` Sean Christopherson
2023-11-02 13:52 ` Fuad Tabba
2023-11-03 23:17 ` Sean Christopherson
2023-10-31 18:24 ` David Matlack
2023-10-31 21:36 ` Sean Christopherson
2023-10-31 22:39 ` David Matlack
2023-11-02 15:48 ` Paolo Bonzini
2023-11-02 16:03 ` Sean Christopherson
2023-11-02 16:28 ` David Matlack
2023-11-02 17:37 ` Sean Christopherson
2023-11-03 9:42 ` Fuad Tabba
2023-11-04 10:26 ` Xu Yilun
2023-11-06 15:43 ` Sean Christopherson
2023-10-27 18:21 ` [PATCH v13 17/35] KVM: Add transparent hugepage support for dedicated guest memory Sean Christopherson
2023-10-31 8:35 ` Xiaoyao Li
2023-10-31 14:16 ` Sean Christopherson
2023-11-01 7:25 ` Xiaoyao Li
2023-11-01 13:41 ` Sean Christopherson [this message]
2023-11-01 13:49 ` Paolo Bonzini
2023-11-01 16:36 ` Sean Christopherson
2023-11-01 22:28 ` Paolo Bonzini
2023-11-01 22:34 ` Sean Christopherson
2023-11-01 23:17 ` Paolo Bonzini
2023-11-02 15:38 ` Sean Christopherson
2023-11-02 15:46 ` Paolo Bonzini
2023-11-27 11:13 ` Vlastimil Babka
2023-11-29 22:40 ` Sean Christopherson
2023-10-27 18:22 ` [PATCH v13 18/35] KVM: x86: "Reset" vcpu->run->exit_reason early in KVM_RUN Sean Christopherson
2023-10-30 17:31 ` Paolo Bonzini
2023-11-02 14:16 ` Fuad Tabba
2023-10-27 18:22 ` [PATCH v13 19/35] KVM: x86: Disallow hugepages when memory attributes are mixed Sean Christopherson
2023-10-27 18:22 ` [PATCH v13 20/35] KVM: x86/mmu: Handle page fault for private memory Sean Christopherson
2023-11-02 14:34 ` Fuad Tabba
2023-11-05 13:02 ` Xu Yilun
2023-11-05 16:19 ` Paolo Bonzini
2023-11-06 13:29 ` Xu Yilun
2023-11-06 15:56 ` Sean Christopherson
2023-10-27 18:22 ` [PATCH v13 21/35] KVM: Drop superfluous __KVM_VCPU_MULTIPLE_ADDRESS_SPACE macro Sean Christopherson
2023-11-02 14:35 ` Fuad Tabba
2023-10-27 18:22 ` [PATCH v13 22/35] KVM: Allow arch code to track number of memslot address spaces per VM Sean Christopherson
2023-10-30 17:34 ` Paolo Bonzini
2023-11-02 14:52 ` Fuad Tabba
2023-10-27 18:22 ` [PATCH v13 23/35] KVM: x86: Add support for "protected VMs" that can utilize private memory Sean Christopherson
2023-10-30 17:36 ` Paolo Bonzini
2023-11-06 11:00 ` Fuad Tabba
2023-11-06 11:03 ` Paolo Bonzini
2023-10-27 18:22 ` [PATCH v13 24/35] KVM: selftests: Drop unused kvm_userspace_memory_region_find() helper Sean Christopherson
2023-10-27 18:22 ` [PATCH v13 25/35] KVM: selftests: Convert lib's mem regions to KVM_SET_USER_MEMORY_REGION2 Sean Christopherson
2024-04-25 14:12 ` Dan Carpenter
2024-04-25 14:45 ` Shuah Khan
2024-04-25 15:09 ` Sean Christopherson
2024-04-25 16:22 ` Shuah Khan
2024-04-26 7:33 ` Jarkko Sakkinen
2023-10-27 18:22 ` [PATCH v13 26/35] KVM: selftests: Add support for creating private memslots Sean Christopherson
2023-10-27 18:22 ` [PATCH v13 27/35] KVM: selftests: Add helpers to convert guest memory b/w private and shared Sean Christopherson
2023-11-06 11:26 ` Fuad Tabba
2023-10-27 18:22 ` [PATCH v13 28/35] KVM: selftests: Add helpers to do KVM_HC_MAP_GPA_RANGE hypercalls (x86) Sean Christopherson
2023-10-27 18:22 ` [PATCH v13 29/35] KVM: selftests: Introduce VM "shape" to allow tests to specify the VM type Sean Christopherson
2023-10-27 18:22 ` [PATCH v13 30/35] KVM: selftests: Add GUEST_SYNC[1-6] macros for synchronizing more data Sean Christopherson
2023-10-27 18:22 ` [PATCH v13 31/35] KVM: selftests: Add x86-only selftest for private memory conversions Sean Christopherson
2023-10-27 18:22 ` [PATCH v13 32/35] KVM: selftests: Add KVM_SET_USER_MEMORY_REGION2 helper Sean Christopherson
2023-10-27 18:22 ` [PATCH v13 33/35] KVM: selftests: Expand set_memory_region_test to validate guest_memfd() Sean Christopherson
2023-10-27 18:22 ` [PATCH v13 34/35] KVM: selftests: Add basic selftest for guest_memfd() Sean Christopherson
2023-10-27 18:22 ` [PATCH v13 35/35] KVM: selftests: Test KVM exit behavior for private memory/access Sean Christopherson
2023-10-30 17:39 ` [PATCH v13 00/35] KVM: guest_memfd() and per-page attributes Paolo Bonzini
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