* [RFC v3 3/3] ktest: sys_move_phys_pages ktest
[not found] <20240319172609.332900-1-gregory.price@memverge.com>
@ 2024-03-19 17:26 ` Gregory Price
2024-03-19 17:52 ` Matthew Wilcox
2024-03-20 2:48 ` [RFC v3 0/3] move_phys_pages syscall - migrate page contents given Huang, Ying
1 sibling, 1 reply; 13+ messages in thread
From: Gregory Price @ 2024-03-19 17:26 UTC (permalink / raw
To: linux-mm
Cc: linux-api, linux-arch, linux-kselftest, linux-kernel, ying.huang,
dan.j.williams, honggyu.kim, corbet, arnd, luto, akpm, shuah,
Gregory Price
Implement simple ktest that looks up the physical address via
/proc/self/pagemap and migrates the page based on that information.
Signed-off-by: Gregory Price <gregory.price@memverge.com>
---
tools/testing/selftests/mm/migration.c | 99 ++++++++++++++++++++++++++
1 file changed, 99 insertions(+)
diff --git a/tools/testing/selftests/mm/migration.c b/tools/testing/selftests/mm/migration.c
index 6908569ef406..c005c98dbdc1 100644
--- a/tools/testing/selftests/mm/migration.c
+++ b/tools/testing/selftests/mm/migration.c
@@ -5,6 +5,8 @@
*/
#include "../kselftest_harness.h"
+#include <stdint.h>
+#include <stdio.h>
#include <strings.h>
#include <pthread.h>
#include <numa.h>
@@ -14,11 +16,17 @@
#include <sys/types.h>
#include <signal.h>
#include <time.h>
+#include <unistd.h>
#define TWOMEG (2<<20)
#define RUNTIME (20)
+#define GET_BIT(X, Y) ((X & ((uint64_t)1<<Y)) >> Y)
+#define GET_PFN(X) (X & 0x7FFFFFFFFFFFFFull)
#define ALIGN(x, a) (((x) + (a - 1)) & (~((a) - 1)))
+#define PAGEMAP_ENTRY 8
+const int __endian_bit = 1;
+#define is_bigendian() ((*(char *)&__endian_bit) == 0)
FIXTURE(migration)
{
@@ -94,6 +102,45 @@ int migrate(uint64_t *ptr, int n1, int n2)
return 0;
}
+int migrate_phys(uint64_t paddr, int n1, int n2)
+{
+ int ret, tmp;
+ int status = 0;
+ struct timespec ts1, ts2;
+
+ if (clock_gettime(CLOCK_MONOTONIC, &ts1))
+ return -1;
+
+ while (1) {
+ if (clock_gettime(CLOCK_MONOTONIC, &ts2))
+ return -1;
+
+ if (ts2.tv_sec - ts1.tv_sec >= RUNTIME)
+ return 0;
+
+ /*
+ * FIXME: move_phys_pages was syscall 462 during RFC.
+ * Update this when an official syscall number is adopted
+ * and the libnuma interface is implemented.
+ */
+ ret = syscall(462, 1, (void **) &paddr, &n2, &status,
+ MPOL_MF_MOVE_ALL);
+ if (ret) {
+ if (ret > 0)
+ printf("Didn't migrate %d pages\n", ret);
+ else
+ perror("Couldn't migrate pages");
+ return -2;
+ }
+
+ tmp = n2;
+ n2 = n1;
+ n1 = tmp;
+ }
+
+ return 0;
+}
+
void *access_mem(void *ptr)
{
volatile uint64_t y = 0;
@@ -199,4 +246,56 @@ TEST_F_TIMEOUT(migration, private_anon_thp, 2*RUNTIME)
ASSERT_EQ(pthread_cancel(self->threads[i]), 0);
}
+/*
+ * Same as the basic migration, but test move_phys_pages.
+ */
+TEST_F_TIMEOUT(migration, phys_addr, 2*RUNTIME)
+{
+ uint64_t *ptr;
+ uint64_t pagemap_val, paddr, file_offset;
+ unsigned char c_buf[PAGEMAP_ENTRY];
+ int i, c, status;
+ FILE *f;
+
+ if (self->nthreads < 2 || self->n1 < 0 || self->n2 < 0)
+ SKIP(return, "Not enough threads or NUMA nodes available");
+
+ ptr = mmap(NULL, TWOMEG, PROT_READ | PROT_WRITE,
+ MAP_PRIVATE | MAP_ANONYMOUS, -1, 0);
+ ASSERT_NE(ptr, MAP_FAILED);
+
+ memset(ptr, 0xde, TWOMEG);
+
+ /* PFN of ptr from /proc/self/pagemap */
+ f = fopen("/proc/self/pagemap", "rb");
+ file_offset = ((uint64_t)ptr) / getpagesize() * PAGEMAP_ENTRY;
+ status = fseek(f, file_offset, SEEK_SET);
+ ASSERT_EQ(status, 0);
+ for (i = 0; i < PAGEMAP_ENTRY; i++) {
+ c = getc(f);
+ ASSERT_NE(c, EOF);
+ /* handle endiand differences */
+ if (is_bigendian())
+ c_buf[i] = c;
+ else
+ c_buf[PAGEMAP_ENTRY - i - 1] = c;
+ }
+ fclose(f);
+
+ for (i = 0; i < PAGEMAP_ENTRY; i++)
+ pagemap_val = (pagemap_val << 8) + c_buf[i];
+
+ ASSERT_TRUE(GET_BIT(pagemap_val, 63));
+ /* This reports a pfn, we need to shift this by page size */
+ paddr = GET_PFN(pagemap_val) << __builtin_ctz(getpagesize());
+
+ for (i = 0; i < self->nthreads - 1; i++)
+ if (pthread_create(&self->threads[i], NULL, access_mem, ptr))
+ perror("Couldn't create thread");
+
+ ASSERT_EQ(migrate_phys(paddr, self->n1, self->n2), 0);
+ for (i = 0; i < self->nthreads - 1; i++)
+ ASSERT_EQ(pthread_cancel(self->threads[i]), 0);
+}
+
TEST_HARNESS_MAIN
--
2.39.1
^ permalink raw reply related [flat|nested] 13+ messages in thread
* Re: [RFC v3 3/3] ktest: sys_move_phys_pages ktest
2024-03-19 17:26 ` [RFC v3 3/3] ktest: sys_move_phys_pages ktest Gregory Price
@ 2024-03-19 17:52 ` Matthew Wilcox
2024-03-19 18:08 ` Matthew Wilcox
2024-03-19 18:14 ` [RFC v3 3/3] ktest: sys_move_phys_pages ktest Gregory Price
0 siblings, 2 replies; 13+ messages in thread
From: Matthew Wilcox @ 2024-03-19 17:52 UTC (permalink / raw
To: Gregory Price
Cc: linux-mm, linux-api, linux-arch, linux-kselftest, linux-kernel,
ying.huang, dan.j.williams, honggyu.kim, corbet, arnd, luto, akpm,
shuah, Gregory Price
On Tue, Mar 19, 2024 at 01:26:09PM -0400, Gregory Price wrote:
> Implement simple ktest that looks up the physical address via
> /proc/self/pagemap and migrates the page based on that information.
What? LOL. No.
^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 13+ messages in thread
* Re: [RFC v3 3/3] ktest: sys_move_phys_pages ktest
2024-03-19 17:52 ` Matthew Wilcox
@ 2024-03-19 18:08 ` Matthew Wilcox
2024-03-19 18:16 ` [RFC v3 3/3] ktest: sys_move_phys_pages ktesty Gregory Price
2024-03-19 18:14 ` [RFC v3 3/3] ktest: sys_move_phys_pages ktest Gregory Price
1 sibling, 1 reply; 13+ messages in thread
From: Matthew Wilcox @ 2024-03-19 18:08 UTC (permalink / raw
To: Gregory Price
Cc: linux-mm, linux-api, linux-arch, linux-kselftest, linux-kernel,
ying.huang, dan.j.williams, honggyu.kim, corbet, arnd, luto, akpm,
shuah, Gregory Price
On Tue, Mar 19, 2024 at 05:52:46PM +0000, Matthew Wilcox wrote:
> On Tue, Mar 19, 2024 at 01:26:09PM -0400, Gregory Price wrote:
> > Implement simple ktest that looks up the physical address via
> > /proc/self/pagemap and migrates the page based on that information.
>
> What? LOL. No.
Also, how is this v3 and the first one to land on linux-mm?
https://lore.kernel.org/linux-mm/?q=move_phys_pages
Also, where is the syscall itself? The only thing here is the ktest.
^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 13+ messages in thread
* Re: [RFC v3 3/3] ktest: sys_move_phys_pages ktest
2024-03-19 17:52 ` Matthew Wilcox
2024-03-19 18:08 ` Matthew Wilcox
@ 2024-03-19 18:14 ` Gregory Price
2024-03-19 18:20 ` Matthew Wilcox
1 sibling, 1 reply; 13+ messages in thread
From: Gregory Price @ 2024-03-19 18:14 UTC (permalink / raw
To: Matthew Wilcox
Cc: Gregory Price, linux-mm, linux-api, linux-arch, linux-kselftest,
linux-kernel, ying.huang, dan.j.williams, honggyu.kim, corbet,
arnd, luto, akpm, shuah
On Tue, Mar 19, 2024 at 05:52:46PM +0000, Matthew Wilcox wrote:
> On Tue, Mar 19, 2024 at 01:26:09PM -0400, Gregory Price wrote:
> > Implement simple ktest that looks up the physical address via
> > /proc/self/pagemap and migrates the page based on that information.
>
> What? LOL. No.
>
Certainly the test is stupid and requires admin, but I could not
come up an easier test to demonstrate the concept - and the docs
say to include a test with all syscall proposals.
Am I missing something else important?
(stupid question: of course I am, but alas I must ask it)
~Gregory
^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 13+ messages in thread
* Re: [RFC v3 3/3] ktest: sys_move_phys_pages ktesty
2024-03-19 18:08 ` Matthew Wilcox
@ 2024-03-19 18:16 ` Gregory Price
2024-03-19 18:18 ` Gregory Price
0 siblings, 1 reply; 13+ messages in thread
From: Gregory Price @ 2024-03-19 18:16 UTC (permalink / raw
To: Matthew Wilcox
Cc: Gregory Price, linux-mm, linux-api, linux-arch, linux-kselftest,
linux-kernel, ying.huang, dan.j.williams, honggyu.kim, corbet,
arnd, luto, akpm, shuah
On Tue, Mar 19, 2024 at 06:08:39PM +0000, Matthew Wilcox wrote:
> On Tue, Mar 19, 2024 at 05:52:46PM +0000, Matthew Wilcox wrote:
> > On Tue, Mar 19, 2024 at 01:26:09PM -0400, Gregory Price wrote:
> > > Implement simple ktest that looks up the physical address via
> > > /proc/self/pagemap and migrates the page based on that information.
> >
> > What? LOL. No.
>
> Also, how is this v3 and the first one to land on linux-mm?
>
> https://lore.kernel.org/linux-mm/?q=move_phys_pages
>
> Also, where is the syscall itself? The only thing here is the ktest.
>
OH, I see the confusion now.
There were two other versions, and I have experienced this delivery
failure before, i'm not sure why the other commits have not been delivered.
Let me look into this.
~Gregory
^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 13+ messages in thread
* Re: [RFC v3 3/3] ktest: sys_move_phys_pages ktesty
2024-03-19 18:16 ` [RFC v3 3/3] ktest: sys_move_phys_pages ktesty Gregory Price
@ 2024-03-19 18:18 ` Gregory Price
0 siblings, 0 replies; 13+ messages in thread
From: Gregory Price @ 2024-03-19 18:18 UTC (permalink / raw
To: Matthew Wilcox
Cc: Gregory Price, linux-mm, linux-api, linux-arch, linux-kselftest,
linux-kernel, ying.huang, dan.j.williams, honggyu.kim, corbet,
arnd, luto, akpm, shuah
On Tue, Mar 19, 2024 at 02:16:01PM -0400, Gregory Price wrote:
> On Tue, Mar 19, 2024 at 06:08:39PM +0000, Matthew Wilcox wrote:
> > On Tue, Mar 19, 2024 at 05:52:46PM +0000, Matthew Wilcox wrote:
> > > On Tue, Mar 19, 2024 at 01:26:09PM -0400, Gregory Price wrote:
> > > > Implement simple ktest that looks up the physical address via
> > > > /proc/self/pagemap and migrates the page based on that information.
> > >
> > > What? LOL. No.
> >
> > Also, how is this v3 and the first one to land on linux-mm?
> >
> > https://lore.kernel.org/linux-mm/?q=move_phys_pages
> >
> > Also, where is the syscall itself? The only thing here is the ktest.
> >
>
> OH, I see the confusion now.
>
> There were two other versions, and I have experienced this delivery
> failure before, i'm not sure why the other commits have not been delivered.
>
> Let me look into this.
>
> ~Gregory
>
Full set of patches:
https://lore.kernel.org/all/20240319172609.332900-1-gregory.price@memverge.com/
I've experienced silent linux-mm delivery failures like this before, I
still do not understand this issue.
v1:
https://lore.kernel.org/all/20230907075453.350554-1-gregory.price@memverge.com/
v2:
https://lore.kernel.org/all/20230919230909.530174-1-gregory.price@memverge.com/
~Gregory
^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 13+ messages in thread
* Re: [RFC v3 3/3] ktest: sys_move_phys_pages ktest
2024-03-19 18:14 ` [RFC v3 3/3] ktest: sys_move_phys_pages ktest Gregory Price
@ 2024-03-19 18:20 ` Matthew Wilcox
2024-03-19 18:32 ` Gregory Price
0 siblings, 1 reply; 13+ messages in thread
From: Matthew Wilcox @ 2024-03-19 18:20 UTC (permalink / raw
To: Gregory Price
Cc: Gregory Price, linux-mm, linux-api, linux-arch, linux-kselftest,
linux-kernel, ying.huang, dan.j.williams, honggyu.kim, corbet,
arnd, luto, akpm, shuah
On Tue, Mar 19, 2024 at 02:14:33PM -0400, Gregory Price wrote:
> On Tue, Mar 19, 2024 at 05:52:46PM +0000, Matthew Wilcox wrote:
> > On Tue, Mar 19, 2024 at 01:26:09PM -0400, Gregory Price wrote:
> > > Implement simple ktest that looks up the physical address via
> > > /proc/self/pagemap and migrates the page based on that information.
> >
> > What? LOL. No.
> >
>
> Certainly the test is stupid and requires admin, but I could not
> come up an easier test to demonstrate the concept - and the docs
> say to include a test with all syscall proposals.
>
> Am I missing something else important?
> (stupid question: of course I am, but alas I must ask it)
It's not that the test is stupid. It's the concept that's stupid.
^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 13+ messages in thread
* Re: [RFC v3 3/3] ktest: sys_move_phys_pages ktest
2024-03-19 18:20 ` Matthew Wilcox
@ 2024-03-19 18:32 ` Gregory Price
2024-03-19 18:38 ` Matthew Wilcox
0 siblings, 1 reply; 13+ messages in thread
From: Gregory Price @ 2024-03-19 18:32 UTC (permalink / raw
To: Matthew Wilcox
Cc: Gregory Price, linux-mm, linux-api, linux-arch, linux-kselftest,
linux-kernel, ying.huang, dan.j.williams, honggyu.kim, corbet,
arnd, luto, akpm, shuah
On Tue, Mar 19, 2024 at 06:20:33PM +0000, Matthew Wilcox wrote:
> On Tue, Mar 19, 2024 at 02:14:33PM -0400, Gregory Price wrote:
> > On Tue, Mar 19, 2024 at 05:52:46PM +0000, Matthew Wilcox wrote:
> > > On Tue, Mar 19, 2024 at 01:26:09PM -0400, Gregory Price wrote:
> > > > Implement simple ktest that looks up the physical address via
> > > > /proc/self/pagemap and migrates the page based on that information.
> > >
> > > What? LOL. No.
> > >
> >
> > Certainly the test is stupid and requires admin, but I could not
> > come up an easier test to demonstrate the concept - and the docs
> > say to include a test with all syscall proposals.
> >
> > Am I missing something else important?
> > (stupid question: of course I am, but alas I must ask it)
>
> It's not that the test is stupid. It's the concept that's stupid.
Ok i'll bite.
The 2 major ways page-hotness is detected right now is page-faults
(induced or otherwise) and things like IBS/PEBS.
page-faults cause overhead, and IBS/PEBS actually miss upwards of ~66%
of all traffic (if you want the details i can dig up the presentation,
but TL;DR: prefetcher traffic is missed entirely).
so OCP folks have been proposing hotness-tracking offloaded to the
memory devices themselves:
https://www.opencompute.org/documents/ocp-cms-hotness-tracking-requirements-white-paper-pdf-1
(it's come along further than this white paper, but i need to dig up
the new information).
These devices are incapable of providing virtual addressing information,
and doing reverse lookups of addresses is inordinately expensive from
user space. This leaves: Do it all in a kernel task, or give user space
an an interface to operate on data provided by the device.
The syscall design is mostly being posted right now to collaborate via
public channels, but if the idea is so fundamentally offensive then i'll
drop it and relay the opinion accordingly.
~Gregory
^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 13+ messages in thread
* Re: [RFC v3 3/3] ktest: sys_move_phys_pages ktest
2024-03-19 18:32 ` Gregory Price
@ 2024-03-19 18:38 ` Matthew Wilcox
2024-03-19 18:50 ` Gregory Price
0 siblings, 1 reply; 13+ messages in thread
From: Matthew Wilcox @ 2024-03-19 18:38 UTC (permalink / raw
To: Gregory Price
Cc: Gregory Price, linux-mm, linux-api, linux-arch, linux-kselftest,
linux-kernel, ying.huang, dan.j.williams, honggyu.kim, corbet,
arnd, luto, akpm, shuah
On Tue, Mar 19, 2024 at 02:32:17PM -0400, Gregory Price wrote:
> On Tue, Mar 19, 2024 at 06:20:33PM +0000, Matthew Wilcox wrote:
> > On Tue, Mar 19, 2024 at 02:14:33PM -0400, Gregory Price wrote:
> > > On Tue, Mar 19, 2024 at 05:52:46PM +0000, Matthew Wilcox wrote:
> > > > On Tue, Mar 19, 2024 at 01:26:09PM -0400, Gregory Price wrote:
> > > > > Implement simple ktest that looks up the physical address via
> > > > > /proc/self/pagemap and migrates the page based on that information.
> > > >
> > > > What? LOL. No.
> > > >
> > >
> > > Certainly the test is stupid and requires admin, but I could not
> > > come up an easier test to demonstrate the concept - and the docs
> > > say to include a test with all syscall proposals.
> > >
> > > Am I missing something else important?
> > > (stupid question: of course I am, but alas I must ask it)
> >
> > It's not that the test is stupid. It's the concept that's stupid.
>
> Ok i'll bite.
>
> The 2 major ways page-hotness is detected right now is page-faults
> (induced or otherwise) and things like IBS/PEBS.
>
> page-faults cause overhead, and IBS/PEBS actually miss upwards of ~66%
> of all traffic (if you want the details i can dig up the presentation,
> but TL;DR: prefetcher traffic is missed entirely).
>
> so OCP folks have been proposing hotness-tracking offloaded to the
> memory devices themselves:
>
> https://www.opencompute.org/documents/ocp-cms-hotness-tracking-requirements-white-paper-pdf-1
>
> (it's come along further than this white paper, but i need to dig up
> the new information).
>
> These devices are incapable of providing virtual addressing information,
> and doing reverse lookups of addresses is inordinately expensive from
> user space. This leaves: Do it all in a kernel task, or give user space
> an an interface to operate on data provided by the device.
>
> The syscall design is mostly being posted right now to collaborate via
> public channels, but if the idea is so fundamentally offensive then i'll
> drop it and relay the opinion accordingly.
The syscall design is wrong. Exposing physical addresses to userspace
is never the right answer. Think rowhammer.
I'm vehemently opposed to all of the bullshit around CXL. However, if you
are going to propose something, it should be based around an abstraction.
Say "We have 8 pools of memory. This VMA is backed by memory from pools
3 & 6. The relative hotness of the 8 pools are <vector>. The quantities
of memory in the 8 ppols are <vector>". And then you can say "migrate
this range of memory to pool 2".
That's just an initial response to the idea. I refuse to invest a
serious amount of time in a dead-end idea like CXL memory pooling.
^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 13+ messages in thread
* Re: [RFC v3 3/3] ktest: sys_move_phys_pages ktest
2024-03-19 18:38 ` Matthew Wilcox
@ 2024-03-19 18:50 ` Gregory Price
0 siblings, 0 replies; 13+ messages in thread
From: Gregory Price @ 2024-03-19 18:50 UTC (permalink / raw
To: Matthew Wilcox
Cc: Gregory Price, linux-mm, linux-api, linux-arch, linux-kselftest,
linux-kernel, ying.huang, dan.j.williams, honggyu.kim, corbet,
arnd, luto, akpm, shuah
On Tue, Mar 19, 2024 at 06:38:23PM +0000, Matthew Wilcox wrote:
> > The syscall design is mostly being posted right now to collaborate via
> > public channels, but if the idea is so fundamentally offensive then i'll
> > drop it and relay the opinion accordingly.
>
> The syscall design is wrong. Exposing physical addresses to userspace
> is never the right answer. Think rowhammer.
>
1) The syscall does not expose physical addresses information, it
consumes it.
2) The syscall does not allow the user to select target physical address
only the target node. Now, that said, if source-pages are zeroed on
migration, that's definitely a concern. I did not see this to be the
case, however, and the frequency of write required to make use of
that for rowhammer seems to be a mitigating factor.
3) there exist 4 interfaces which do expose physical address information
- /proc/pid/pagemap
- perf / IBS and PEBs
- zoneinfo
- /sys/kerne/mm/page_idle (PFNs)
4) The syscall requires CAP_SYS_ADMIN because these other sources
require the same, though as v1/v2 discussed there could be an
argument for CAP_SYS_NIDE.
> I'm vehemently opposed to all of the bullshit around CXL. However, if you
> are going to propose something, it should be based around an abstraction.
> Say "We have 8 pools of memory. This VMA is backed by memory from pools
> 3 & 6. The relative hotness of the 8 pools are <vector>. The quantities
> of memory in the 8 ppols are <vector>". And then you can say "migrate
> this range of memory to pool 2".
>
> That's just an initial response to the idea. I refuse to invest a
> serious amount of time in a dead-end idea like CXL memory pooling.
Who said anything about pools? Local memory expanders are capable of
hosting hotness tracking offload.
~Gregory
^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 13+ messages in thread
* Re: [RFC v3 0/3] move_phys_pages syscall - migrate page contents given
[not found] <20240319172609.332900-1-gregory.price@memverge.com>
2024-03-19 17:26 ` [RFC v3 3/3] ktest: sys_move_phys_pages ktest Gregory Price
@ 2024-03-20 2:48 ` Huang, Ying
2024-03-20 4:39 ` Gregory Price
1 sibling, 1 reply; 13+ messages in thread
From: Huang, Ying @ 2024-03-20 2:48 UTC (permalink / raw
To: Gregory Price
Cc: linux-mm, linux-api, linux-arch, linux-kselftest, linux-kernel,
dan.j.williams, honggyu.kim, corbet, arnd, luto, akpm, shuah,
Gregory Price
Gregory Price <gourry.memverge@gmail.com> writes:
> v3:
> - pull forward to v6.8
> - style and small fixups recommended by jcameron
> - update syscall number (will do all archs when RFC tag drops)
> - update for new folio code
> - added OCP link to device-tracked address hotness proposal
> - kept void* over __u64 simply because it integrates cleanly with
> existing migration code. If there's strong opinions, I can refactor.
>
> This patch set is a proposal for a syscall analogous to move_pages,
> that migrates pages between NUMA nodes using physical addressing.
>
> The intent is to better enable user-land system-wide memory tiering
> as CXL devices begin to provide memory resources on the PCIe bus.
>
> For example, user-land software which is making decisions based on
> data sources which expose physical address information no longer
> must convert that information to virtual addressing to act upon it
> (see background for info on how physical addresses are acquired).
>
> The syscall requires CAP_SYS_ADMIN, since physical address source
> information is typically protected by the same (or CAP_SYS_NICE).
>
> This patch set broken into 3 patches:
> 1) refactor of existing migration code for code reuse
> 2) The sys_move_phys_pages system call.
> 3) ktest of the syscall
>
> The sys_move_phys_pages system call validates the page may be
> migrated by checking migratable-status of each vma mapping the page,
> and the intersection of cpuset policies each vma's task.
>
>
> Background:
>
> Userspace job schedulers, memory managers, and tiering software
> solutions depend on page migration syscalls to reallocate resources
> across NUMA nodes. Currently, these calls enable movement of memory
> associated with a specific PID. Moves can be requested in coarse,
> process-sized strokes (as with migrate_pages), and on specific virtual
> pages (via move_pages).
>
> However, a number of profiling mechanisms provide system-wide information
> that would benefit from a physical-addressing version move_pages.
>
> There are presently at least 4 ways userland can acquire physical
> address information for use with this interface, and 1 hardware offload
> mechanism being proposed by opencompute.
>
> 1) /proc/pid/pagemap: can be used to do page table translations.
> This is only really useful for testing, and the ktest was
> written using this functionality.
>
> 2) X86: IBS (AMD) and PEBS (Intel) can be configured to return physical
> and/or vitual address information.
>
> 3) zoneinfo: /proc/zoneinfo exposes the start PFN of zones
>
> 4) /sys/kernel/mm/page_idle: A way to query whether a PFN is idle.
> So long as the page size is known, this can be used to identify
> system-wide idle pages that could be migrated to lower tiers.
>
> https://docs.kernel.org/admin-guide/mm/idle_page_tracking.html
>
> 5) CXL Offloaded Hotness Monitoring (Proposed): a CXL memory device
> may provide hot/cold information about its memory. For example,
> it may report the hottest device addresses (0-based) or a physical
> address (if it has access to decoders for convert bases).
>
> DPA can be cheaply converted to HPA by combining it with data
> exposed by /sys/bus/cxl/ information (region address bases).
>
> See: https://www.opencompute.org/documents/ocp-cms-hotness-tracking-requirements-white-paper-pdf-1
>
>
> Information from these sources facilitates systemwide resource management,
> but with the limitations of migrate_pages and move_pages applying to
> individual tasks, their outputs must be converted back to virtual addresses
> and re-associated with specific PIDs.
>
> Doing this reverse-translation outside of the kernel requires considerable
> space and compute, and it will have to be performed again by the existing
> system calls. Much of this work can be avoided if the pages can be
> migrated directly with physical memory addressing.
One difficulty of the idea of the physical address is that we lacks some
user space specified policy information to make decision. For example,
users may want to pin some pages in DRAM to improve latency, or pin some
pages in CXL memory to do some best effort work. To make the correct
decision, we need PID and virtual address.
Yes, I found that you have tried to avoid to break the existing policy
in the code. But it seems better to consider the policy beforehand to
avoid to make the wrong decision in the first place.
--
Best Regards,
Huang, Ying
^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 13+ messages in thread
* Re: [RFC v3 0/3] move_phys_pages syscall - migrate page contents given
2024-03-20 2:48 ` [RFC v3 0/3] move_phys_pages syscall - migrate page contents given Huang, Ying
@ 2024-03-20 4:39 ` Gregory Price
2024-03-20 6:01 ` Huang, Ying
0 siblings, 1 reply; 13+ messages in thread
From: Gregory Price @ 2024-03-20 4:39 UTC (permalink / raw
To: Huang, Ying
Cc: Gregory Price, linux-mm, linux-api, linux-arch, linux-kselftest,
linux-kernel, dan.j.williams, honggyu.kim, corbet, arnd, luto,
akpm, shuah
On Wed, Mar 20, 2024 at 10:48:44AM +0800, Huang, Ying wrote:
> Gregory Price <gourry.memverge@gmail.com> writes:
>
> > Doing this reverse-translation outside of the kernel requires considerable
> > space and compute, and it will have to be performed again by the existing
> > system calls. Much of this work can be avoided if the pages can be
> > migrated directly with physical memory addressing.
>
> One difficulty of the idea of the physical address is that we lacks some
> user space specified policy information to make decision. For example,
> users may want to pin some pages in DRAM to improve latency, or pin some
> pages in CXL memory to do some best effort work. To make the correct
> decision, we need PID and virtual address.
>
I think of this as a second or third order problem. The core problem
right now isn't the practicality of how userland would actually use this
interface - the core problem is whether the data generated by offloaded
monitoring is even worth collecting and operating on in the first place.
So this is a quick hack to do some research about whether it's even
worth developing the whole abstraction described by Willy.
This is why it's labeled RFC. I upped a v3 because I know of two groups
actively looking at using it for research, and because the folio updates
broke the old version. It's also easier for me to engage through the
list than via private channels for this particular work.
Do I suggest we merge this interface as-is? No, too many concerns about
side channels. However, it's a clean reuse of move_pages code to
bootstrap the investigation, and it at least gets the gears turning.
Example notes from a sidebar earlier today:
* An interesting proposal from Dan Williams would be to provide some
sort of `/sys/.../memory_tiering/tierN/promote_hot` interface, with
a callback mechanism into the relevant hardware drivers that allows
for this to be abstracted. This could be done on some interval and
some threshhold (# pages, hotness threshhold, etc).
The code to execute promotions ends up looking like what I have now
1) Validate the page is elgibile to be promoted by walking the vmas
2) invoking the existing move_pages code
The above idea can be implemented trivially in userland without
having to plumb through a whole brand new callback system.
Sometimes you have to post stupid ideas to get to the good ones :]
~Gregory
^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 13+ messages in thread
* Re: [RFC v3 0/3] move_phys_pages syscall - migrate page contents given
2024-03-20 4:39 ` Gregory Price
@ 2024-03-20 6:01 ` Huang, Ying
0 siblings, 0 replies; 13+ messages in thread
From: Huang, Ying @ 2024-03-20 6:01 UTC (permalink / raw
To: Gregory Price
Cc: Gregory Price, linux-mm, linux-api, linux-arch, linux-kselftest,
linux-kernel, dan.j.williams, honggyu.kim, corbet, arnd, luto,
akpm, shuah
Gregory Price <gregory.price@memverge.com> writes:
> On Wed, Mar 20, 2024 at 10:48:44AM +0800, Huang, Ying wrote:
>> Gregory Price <gourry.memverge@gmail.com> writes:
>>
>> > Doing this reverse-translation outside of the kernel requires considerable
>> > space and compute, and it will have to be performed again by the existing
>> > system calls. Much of this work can be avoided if the pages can be
>> > migrated directly with physical memory addressing.
>>
>> One difficulty of the idea of the physical address is that we lacks some
>> user space specified policy information to make decision. For example,
>> users may want to pin some pages in DRAM to improve latency, or pin some
>> pages in CXL memory to do some best effort work. To make the correct
>> decision, we need PID and virtual address.
>>
>
> I think of this as a second or third order problem. The core problem
> right now isn't the practicality of how userland would actually use this
> interface - the core problem is whether the data generated by offloaded
> monitoring is even worth collecting and operating on in the first place.
>
> So this is a quick hack to do some research about whether it's even
> worth developing the whole abstraction described by Willy.
>
> This is why it's labeled RFC. I upped a v3 because I know of two groups
> actively looking at using it for research, and because the folio updates
> broke the old version. It's also easier for me to engage through the
> list than via private channels for this particular work.
>
>
> Do I suggest we merge this interface as-is? No, too many concerns about
> side channels. However, it's a clean reuse of move_pages code to
> bootstrap the investigation, and it at least gets the gears turning.
Got it! Thanks for detailed explanation.
I think that one of the difficulties of offloaded monitoring is that
it's hard to obey these user specified policies. The policies may
become more complex in the future, for example, allocate DRAM among
workloads.
> Example notes from a sidebar earlier today:
>
> * An interesting proposal from Dan Williams would be to provide some
> sort of `/sys/.../memory_tiering/tierN/promote_hot` interface, with
> a callback mechanism into the relevant hardware drivers that allows
> for this to be abstracted. This could be done on some interval and
> some threshhold (# pages, hotness threshhold, etc).
>
>
> The code to execute promotions ends up looking like what I have now
>
> 1) Validate the page is elgibile to be promoted by walking the vmas
> 2) invoking the existing move_pages code
>
> The above idea can be implemented trivially in userland without
> having to plumb through a whole brand new callback system.
>
>
> Sometimes you have to post stupid ideas to get to the good ones :]
>
--
Best Regards,
Huang, Ying
^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 13+ messages in thread
end of thread, other threads:[~2024-03-20 6:03 UTC | newest]
Thread overview: 13+ messages (download: mbox.gz follow: Atom feed
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2024-03-19 17:26 ` [RFC v3 3/3] ktest: sys_move_phys_pages ktest Gregory Price
2024-03-19 17:52 ` Matthew Wilcox
2024-03-19 18:08 ` Matthew Wilcox
2024-03-19 18:16 ` [RFC v3 3/3] ktest: sys_move_phys_pages ktesty Gregory Price
2024-03-19 18:18 ` Gregory Price
2024-03-19 18:14 ` [RFC v3 3/3] ktest: sys_move_phys_pages ktest Gregory Price
2024-03-19 18:20 ` Matthew Wilcox
2024-03-19 18:32 ` Gregory Price
2024-03-19 18:38 ` Matthew Wilcox
2024-03-19 18:50 ` Gregory Price
2024-03-20 2:48 ` [RFC v3 0/3] move_phys_pages syscall - migrate page contents given Huang, Ying
2024-03-20 4:39 ` Gregory Price
2024-03-20 6:01 ` Huang, Ying
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