Linux-arch Archive mirror
 help / color / mirror / Atom feed
From: Alan Stern <stern@rowland.harvard.edu>
To: Hernan Ponce de Leon <hernan.poncedeleon@huaweicloud.com>
Cc: Jonas Oberhauser <jonas.oberhauser@huaweicloud.com>,
	"Paul E. McKenney" <paulmck@kernel.org>,
	linux-kernel@vger.kernel.org, linux-arch@vger.kernel.org,
	kernel-team@meta.com, parri.andrea@gmail.com,
	boqun.feng@gmail.com, j.alglave@ucl.ac.uk, luc.maranget@inria.fr,
	Joel Fernandes <joel@joelfernandes.org>
Subject: Re: LKMM: Making RMW barriers explicit
Date: Fri, 17 May 2024 20:31:35 -0400	[thread overview]
Message-ID: <2f20e7cf-7c67-4ad3-8a0c-3c1d01257ae4@rowland.harvard.edu> (raw)
In-Reply-To: <a9bf972c-b5ee-f1c2-36bf-30ba62f419d7@huaweicloud.com>

On Thu, May 16, 2024 at 10:44:05AM +0200, Hernan Ponce de Leon wrote:
> On 5/16/2024 10:31 AM, Jonas Oberhauser wrote:
> > 
> > 
> > Am 5/16/2024 um 3:43 AM schrieb Alan Stern:
> > > Hernan and Jonas:
> > > 
> > > Can you explain more fully the changes you want to make to herd7 and/or
> > > the LKMM?  The goal is to make the memory barriers currently implicit in
> > > RMW operations explicit, but I couldn't understand how you propose to do
> > > this.
> > > 
> > > Are you going to change herd7 somehow, and if so, how?  It seems like
> > > you should want to provide sufficient information so that the .bell
> > > and .cat files can implement the appropriate memory barriers associated
> > > with each RMW operation.  What additional information is needed?  And
> > > how (explained in English, not by quoting source code) will the .bell
> > > and .cat files make use of this information?
> > > 
> > > Alan
> > 
> > 
> > I don't know whether herd7 needs to be changed. Probably, herd7 does the
> > following:
> > - if a tag called Mb appears on an rmw instruction (by instruction I
> > mean things like xchg(), atomic_inc_return_relaxed()), replace it with
> > one of those things:
> >    * full mb ; once (the rmw) ; full mb, if a value returning
> > (successful) rmw
> >    * once (the rmw)   otherwise
> > - everything else gets translated 1:1 into some internal representation
> 
> This is my understanding from reading the source code of CSem.ml in herd7's
> repo.
> 
> Also, this is exactly what dartagnan is currently doing.
> 
> > 
> > What I'm proposing is:
> > 1. remove this transpilation step,
> > 2. and instead allow the Mb tag to actually appear on RMW instructions
> > 3. change the cat file to explicitly define the behavior of the Mb tag
> > on RMW instructions
> 
> These are the exact 3 things I changed in dartagnan for testing what Jonas
> proposed.
> 
> I am not sure if further changes are needed for herd7.

Okay, good.  This answers the first part of what I asked.  What about 
the second part?  That is, how will the changes to the .def, .bell, and 
.cat files achieve your goals?

Alan

  reply	other threads:[~2024-05-18  0:31 UTC|newest]

Thread overview: 33+ messages / expand[flat|nested]  mbox.gz  Atom feed  top
2024-05-16  1:43 LKMM: Making RMW barriers explicit Alan Stern
2024-05-16  8:31 ` Jonas Oberhauser
2024-05-16  8:44   ` Hernan Ponce de Leon
2024-05-18  0:31     ` Alan Stern [this message]
2024-05-21  9:57       ` Jonas Oberhauser
2024-05-21 15:36         ` Alan Stern
2024-05-22  9:20           ` Jonas Oberhauser
2024-05-22 14:20             ` Alan Stern
2024-05-22 16:54               ` Andrea Parri
2024-05-22 18:20                 ` Alan Stern
2024-05-22 19:48                   ` Hernan Ponce de Leon
2024-05-23  9:04                     ` Andrea Parri
2024-05-23 14:27                 ` Jonas Oberhauser
2024-05-23 16:35                   ` Andrea Parri
2024-05-23 20:30                     ` Jonas Oberhauser
2024-05-24  3:30                       ` Andrea Parri
2024-05-24  8:16                       ` Hernan Ponce de Leon
2024-05-23 12:54               ` Jonas Oberhauser
2024-05-23 13:35                 ` Paul E. McKenney
2024-05-23 14:05                 ` Alan Stern
2024-05-23 14:26                   ` Hernan Ponce de Leon
2024-05-23 15:14                     ` Boqun Feng
2024-05-24  1:38                       ` Alan Stern
2024-05-24  2:50                         ` Boqun Feng
2024-05-24 14:14                           ` Alan Stern
2024-05-24 14:34                             ` Boqun Feng
2024-05-24 14:53                               ` Alan Stern
2024-05-24 18:09                                 ` Jonas Oberhauser
2024-05-24 18:47                                   ` Boqun Feng
2024-05-24 18:48                                   ` Alan Stern
2024-05-23 16:05                     ` Alan Stern
2024-05-23 14:36                   ` Jonas Oberhauser
2024-05-21 11:38       ` Hernan Ponce de Leon

Reply instructions:

You may reply publicly to this message via plain-text email
using any one of the following methods:

* Save the following mbox file, import it into your mail client,
  and reply-to-all from there: mbox

  Avoid top-posting and favor interleaved quoting:
  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Posting_style#Interleaved_style

* Reply using the --to, --cc, and --in-reply-to
  switches of git-send-email(1):

  git send-email \
    --in-reply-to=2f20e7cf-7c67-4ad3-8a0c-3c1d01257ae4@rowland.harvard.edu \
    --to=stern@rowland.harvard.edu \
    --cc=boqun.feng@gmail.com \
    --cc=hernan.poncedeleon@huaweicloud.com \
    --cc=j.alglave@ucl.ac.uk \
    --cc=joel@joelfernandes.org \
    --cc=jonas.oberhauser@huaweicloud.com \
    --cc=kernel-team@meta.com \
    --cc=linux-arch@vger.kernel.org \
    --cc=linux-kernel@vger.kernel.org \
    --cc=luc.maranget@inria.fr \
    --cc=parri.andrea@gmail.com \
    --cc=paulmck@kernel.org \
    /path/to/YOUR_REPLY

  https://kernel.org/pub/software/scm/git/docs/git-send-email.html

* If your mail client supports setting the In-Reply-To header
  via mailto: links, try the mailto: link
Be sure your reply has a Subject: header at the top and a blank line before the message body.
This is a public inbox, see mirroring instructions
for how to clone and mirror all data and code used for this inbox;
as well as URLs for read-only IMAP folder(s) and NNTP newsgroup(s).