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From: Ignat Korchagin <ignat@cloudflare.com>
To: Jarkko Sakkinen <jarkko@kernel.org>
Cc: James Bottomley <James.Bottomley@hansenpartnership.com>,
	Mimi Zohar <zohar@linux.ibm.com>,
	 David Howells <dhowells@redhat.com>,
	Paul Moore <paul@paul-moore.com>,
	 James Morris <jmorris@namei.org>,
	serge@hallyn.com, linux-integrity@vger.kernel.org,
	 keyrings@vger.kernel.org, linux-kernel@vger.kernel.org,
	 kernel-team@cloudflare.com
Subject: Re: [RFC PATCH 0/2] TPM derived keys
Date: Tue, 14 May 2024 15:41:50 +0100	[thread overview]
Message-ID: <CALrw=nE_sV=1DnCx1eM8Sgno-di0yCaWHX467ZEf1Fddwg7_rA@mail.gmail.com> (raw)
In-Reply-To: <D19F74M6B8UC.2VEOOZHGOS87V@kernel.org>

On Tue, May 14, 2024 at 3:00 PM Jarkko Sakkinen <jarkko@kernel.org> wrote:
>
> On Tue May 14, 2024 at 4:11 PM EEST, Ignat Korchagin wrote:
> > For example, a cheap NAS box with no internal storage (disks connected
> > externally via USB). We want:
> >   * disks to be encrypted and decryptable only by this NAS box
>
> So how this differs from LUKS2 style, which also systemd supports where
> the encryption key is anchored to PCR's? If I took hard drive out of my
> Linux box, I could not decrypt it in another machine because of this.

It differs with the fact that the disk has a clearly identifiable
LUKS2 header, which tells an adversary that this is a disk with some
data that is encrypted. With derived keys and plain dm-crypt mode
there is no LUKS header, so it is not possible to tell if it is an
encrypted disk or a disk with just random data. Additionally, if I
accidentally wipe the sector with the LUKS2 header - all my data is
lost (because the data encryption key from the header is lost). With
derived keys I can always decrypt at least some data, if the disk is
available.

> >   * if someone steals one of the disks - we don't want them to see it
> > has encrypted data (no LUKS header)
>
> So what happens when you reconnect?

We recover/derive the encryption key and unlock the disk again.

> > Additionally we may want to SSH into the NAS for configuration and we
> > don't want the SSH server key to change after each boot (regardless if
> > disks are connected or not).
>
> Right, interesting use case. Begin before any technical jargon exactly
> with a great example like this. Then it is easier to start to anchoring
> stuff and not be misleaded.
>
> BR, Jarkko

  parent reply	other threads:[~2024-05-14 14:42 UTC|newest]

Thread overview: 40+ messages / expand[flat|nested]  mbox.gz  Atom feed  top
2024-05-03 22:16 [RFC PATCH 0/2] TPM derived keys Ignat Korchagin
2024-05-03 22:16 ` [RFC PATCH 1/2] tpm: add some algorithm and constant definitions from the TPM spec Ignat Korchagin
2024-05-14 22:51   ` Jarkko Sakkinen
2024-05-14 22:52     ` Jarkko Sakkinen
2024-05-03 22:16 ` [RFC PATCH 2/2] KEYS: implement derived keys Ignat Korchagin
2024-05-14 23:10   ` Jarkko Sakkinen
2024-05-14 23:44     ` Jarkko Sakkinen
2024-05-15  0:00       ` Jarkko Sakkinen
2024-05-15  6:44       ` Ignat Korchagin
2024-05-15 12:00         ` Jarkko Sakkinen
2024-05-15 12:03           ` Jarkko Sakkinen
2024-05-15  7:26     ` Ignat Korchagin
2024-05-04  0:21 ` [RFC PATCH 0/2] TPM " Jarkko Sakkinen
2024-05-04 13:55   ` Ben Boeckel
2024-05-04 14:51     ` Jarkko Sakkinen
2024-05-04 15:35       ` Jarkko Sakkinen
2024-05-13 17:09         ` Ignat Korchagin
2024-05-13 22:33           ` James Bottomley
2024-05-14  9:50             ` Ignat Korchagin
2024-05-14 14:11               ` James Bottomley
2024-05-14 14:54                 ` Ignat Korchagin
2024-05-13 17:11 ` Ignat Korchagin
2024-05-14  0:28   ` Jarkko Sakkinen
2024-05-14 10:05     ` Ignat Korchagin
2024-05-14 12:09       ` Jarkko Sakkinen
2024-05-14 13:11         ` Ignat Korchagin
2024-05-14 14:00           ` Jarkko Sakkinen
2024-05-14 14:30             ` Jarkko Sakkinen
2024-05-14 15:21               ` Jarkko Sakkinen
2024-05-14 15:26                 ` Jarkko Sakkinen
2024-05-14 15:30                   ` Ignat Korchagin
2024-05-14 15:42                     ` Jarkko Sakkinen
2024-05-14 16:08                       ` Ignat Korchagin
2024-05-14 16:22                         ` Jarkko Sakkinen
2024-05-14 14:41             ` Ignat Korchagin [this message]
2024-05-14 14:45               ` Jarkko Sakkinen
2024-05-14 15:30           ` James Bottomley
2024-05-14 15:38             ` Ignat Korchagin
2024-05-14 15:54               ` James Bottomley
2024-05-14 16:01                 ` Ignat Korchagin

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