From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.4.0 (2014-02-07) on aws-us-west-2-korg-lkml-1.web.codeaurora.org Received: from vger.kernel.org (vger.kernel.org [23.128.96.18]) by smtp.lore.kernel.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4E83CC77B7D for ; Wed, 10 May 2023 21:54:25 +0000 (UTC) Received: (majordomo@vger.kernel.org) by vger.kernel.org via listexpand id S235982AbjEJVyY (ORCPT ); Wed, 10 May 2023 17:54:24 -0400 Received: from lindbergh.monkeyblade.net ([23.128.96.19]:51614 "EHLO lindbergh.monkeyblade.net" rhost-flags-OK-OK-OK-OK) by vger.kernel.org with ESMTP id S230016AbjEJVyX (ORCPT ); Wed, 10 May 2023 17:54:23 -0400 Received: from mail-ot1-x332.google.com (mail-ot1-x332.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:4864:20::332]) by lindbergh.monkeyblade.net (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 6A37B5263 for ; Wed, 10 May 2023 14:54:22 -0700 (PDT) Received: by mail-ot1-x332.google.com with SMTP id 46e09a7af769-6ab19cf53f7so2036118a34.0 for ; Wed, 10 May 2023 14:54:22 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20221208; t=1683755661; x=1686347661; h=content-transfer-encoding:mime-version:subject:references :in-reply-to:message-id:cc:to:from:date:from:to:cc:subject:date :message-id:reply-to; bh=gZhJ8Oybemtgz5njoRhar+b7WLF9DU200/dfdc0gje8=; b=IWgGf0vp6UVRmUh+vKk7yplmlL8ue+l+jxUTcJ0pfbFPa6ZETeVGi5xs/VZke7V0LD B+X8q4SjpQ4+t1oN/jORA8KMoPvy7DYEPMiLTyQ0ikDmaSlpHiD4sPXZzOPkhTCxRSsp I+NS5NQ5xx4jFpHKueaYlcMWh9PubuH6TE1NR5o8BYR6mmG208DApj+Ceu9bkDqfimiT ljbLajzwr2QsCpseOEfryxz+eE82gQDDRJUIt33tosmSaiMYQIoqTE237a/WyLNzRhvq zbK3dsteFe478+EN25iuMcTsDLqnOeeIlmaw6pEoaIyJ77NJVxusYFoozDFIGLAIjgxH ASCA== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20221208; t=1683755661; x=1686347661; h=content-transfer-encoding:mime-version:subject:references :in-reply-to:message-id:cc:to:from:date:x-gm-message-state:from:to :cc:subject:date:message-id:reply-to; bh=gZhJ8Oybemtgz5njoRhar+b7WLF9DU200/dfdc0gje8=; b=enb/Zc9C2lOPb9UDN9KacwDNta4bJJgoKS92OA9Ui+g6UyfaPGpgiwcCAxv5wPG8+/ vwOsftbgkFfQYPnPF8h7bnExNrf1xJivlxqFVw1MZFHr3iagi8Zy644+/S8sHYqQ9ej7 OjvEwMHnrDVz6veukW0Sq7dQUXQaYUpHE1b/IJpoHh+JmPF6mClxfVZTWPevPG+k5reZ GEowrPLQVRN33BywO4xImJZeRbqlKyPyN4lW1JjKQChZalsUviyJQzOa6xugUzUNFFYr uatJA4XhC0fKLMy76QLZEU0kKhA+TTAFoARksdCYxicdJTISAsRKoeaHtrF5nwu4V2pE wODQ== X-Gm-Message-State: AC+VfDwA3gunTis9DNqYMeAyys+jv21sQ6m6lOvXqsgMQ4+pJ30Sc6by g7qHkAffbn46YYcs4wfxpiI= X-Google-Smtp-Source: ACHHUZ6c1v/vIjwQnRSn21YskkLCXa38CUSRjKIqEmhpLJ8jt3c2ZXdiSnT8B9YOVG5DOSFJcKXpnA== X-Received: by 2002:a9d:66c8:0:b0:6ab:11a7:b8cf with SMTP id t8-20020a9d66c8000000b006ab11a7b8cfmr4217475otm.17.1683755661431; Wed, 10 May 2023 14:54:21 -0700 (PDT) Received: from localhost ([2806:2f0:4000:e8a3:4ae7:daff:fe31:3285]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id c14-20020a9d480e000000b0069f9203967bsm2400708otf.76.2023.05.10.14.54.20 (version=TLS1_3 cipher=TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 bits=256/256); Wed, 10 May 2023 14:54:20 -0700 (PDT) Date: Wed, 10 May 2023 15:54:20 -0600 From: Felipe Contreras To: Sergey Organov , Felipe Contreras Cc: Junio C Hamano , git@vger.kernel.org Message-ID: <645c128cd8e0_7b63e2941a@chronos.notmuch> In-Reply-To: <87v8h0guks.fsf@osv.gnss.ru> References: <20230503134118.73504-1-sorganov@gmail.com> <874jote2zl.fsf@osv.gnss.ru> <87o7n03qgq.fsf@osv.gnss.ru> <6459a33b14bd6_7c682947d@chronos.notmuch> <87v8h0guks.fsf@osv.gnss.ru> Subject: Re: [PATCH] t4013: add expected failure for "log --patch --no-patch" Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Precedence: bulk List-ID: X-Mailing-List: git@vger.kernel.org Sergey Organov wrote: > Felipe Contreras writes: > > Sergey Organov wrote: > >> Junio C Hamano writes: > > > >> > When a command does not behave the way one thinks it should, being > >> > curious is good. Reporting it as a potential bug is also good. But > >> > it would help the project more if it was triaged before reporting it > >> > as a potential bug, if the reporter is capable of doing so. Those > >> > who encounter behaviour unexpected to them are more numerous than > >> > those who can report it as a potential bug (many people are not > >> > equipped to write a good bug report), and those who can triage and > >> > diagnose a bug report are fewer. Those who can come up with a > >> > solution is even more scarse. > >> > >> I'm afraid the solution I'd come up with won't be welcomed. > > > > My solutions are often not welcomed, and yet I still implement them. > > > > It might be a waste of time, but often I've found out that very quickly > > after attempting to come up with a solution I realize there's a lot of > > detail I was missing initially, so even if the solution is not welcomed, > > it helps me to understand the problem space and be more helpful in the > > discussion of potential solutions. > > > > So if I were you, I would still attempt to do it, just to gather some > > understanding. > > I sympathize, and I did recently. However, I figure I'd rather spend my > time elsewhere, say, in the Linux kernel, where my experience is > somewhat different, and allows me to enjoy my work. Completely agree. My experience in the Linux project is that of a true meritocracy: Linus Torvalds doesn't have to like me, if the patch is good, it gets merged. Period. > > I for one welcome any and all attempts to fix git's awful user > > interface, regardless of the reception of the maintainer, and the "core > > club". > > For UI, the problem is that there is no core model defined, nor any > guidelines are given, so every discussion ends-up being what "makes > sense" and what doesn't for a user, everyone involved having his own > preference, that often even changes over time. > > In this situation attempting to fix the UI sounds like waste of efforts, > as nobody can actually point at the state of the UI to which we are > willing to converge, so there are no objective criteria for accepting of > fixup patches. It's even worse than that. There used to be objective criteria like the old Git User's Surveys [1], but it turned out Git developers did not care about the feedback from users, which is why there wasn't any point in continuing them. And worse: even when all Git developers agree on a UI change, except one, it doesn't matter, because that one has absolute veto power. Not very hopeful prospects for Git's UI. Cheers. [1] https://archive.kernel.org/oldwiki/git.wiki.kernel.org/index.php/GitSurvey2016.html -- Felipe Contreras