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MN2PR12MB3775.namprd12.prod.outlook.com X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-AuthAs: Internal X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-OriginalArrivalTime: 11 Jun 2021 07:42:13.1284 (UTC) X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-FromEntityHeader: Hosted X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-Id: 3dd8961f-e488-4e60-8e11-a82d994e183d X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-MailboxType: HOSTED X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-UserPrincipalName: ARZTBmru/nzSpdmLwCmBU/ZHlCOh8rNW8lsILER6t37qu0oNS3njYAPYyk1I7zTG X-MS-Exchange-Transport-CrossTenantHeadersStamped: MN2PR12MB4518 X-BeenThere: dri-devel@lists.freedesktop.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Direct Rendering Infrastructure - Development List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Cc: Tvrtko Ursulin , intel-gfx , dri-devel , Matthew Auld , Jason Ekstrand , Dave Airlie Errors-To: dri-devel-bounces@lists.freedesktop.org Sender: "dri-devel" Am 11.06.21 um 09:20 schrieb Daniel Vetter: > On Fri, Jun 11, 2021 at 8:55 AM Christian König > wrote: >> Am 10.06.21 um 22:42 schrieb Daniel Vetter: >>> On Thu, Jun 10, 2021 at 10:10 PM Jason Ekstrand wrote: >>>> On Thu, Jun 10, 2021 at 8:35 AM Jason Ekstrand wrote: >>>>> On Thu, Jun 10, 2021 at 6:30 AM Daniel Vetter wrote: >>>>>> On Thu, Jun 10, 2021 at 11:39 AM Christian König >>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>> Am 10.06.21 um 11:29 schrieb Tvrtko Ursulin: >>>>>>>> On 09/06/2021 22:29, Jason Ekstrand wrote: >>>>>>>>> We've tried to keep it somewhat contained by doing most of the hard work >>>>>>>>> to prevent access of recycled objects via dma_fence_get_rcu_safe(). >>>>>>>>> However, a quick grep of kernel sources says that, of the 30 instances >>>>>>>>> of dma_fence_get_rcu*, only 11 of them use dma_fence_get_rcu_safe(). >>>>>>>>> It's likely there bear traps in DRM and related subsystems just waiting >>>>>>>>> for someone to accidentally step in them. >>>>>>>> ...because dma_fence_get_rcu_safe apears to be about whether the >>>>>>>> *pointer* to the fence itself is rcu protected, not about the fence >>>>>>>> object itself. >>>>>>> Yes, exactly that. >>>>> The fact that both of you think this either means that I've completely >>>>> missed what's going on with RCUs here (possible but, in this case, I >>>>> think unlikely) or RCUs on dma fences should scare us all. >>>> Taking a step back for a second and ignoring SLAB_TYPESAFE_BY_RCU as >>>> such, I'd like to ask a slightly different question: What are the >>>> rules about what is allowed to be done under the RCU read lock and >>>> what guarantees does a driver need to provide? >>>> >>>> I think so far that we've all agreed on the following: >>>> >>>> 1. Freeing an unsignaled fence is ok as long as it doesn't have any >>>> pending callbacks. (Callbacks should hold a reference anyway). >>>> >>>> 2. The pointer race solved by dma_fence_get_rcu_safe is real and >>>> requires the loop to sort out. >>>> >>>> But let's say I have a dma_fence pointer that I got from, say, calling >>>> dma_resv_excl_fence() under rcu_read_lock(). What am I allowed to do >>>> with it under the RCU lock? What assumptions can I make? Is this >>>> code, for instance, ok? >>>> >>>> rcu_read_lock(); >>>> fence = dma_resv_excl_fence(obj); >>>> idle = !fence || test_bit(DMA_FENCE_FLAG_SIGNALED_BIT, &fence->flags); >>>> rcu_read_unlock(); >>>> >>>> This code very much looks correct under the following assumptions: >>>> >>>> 1. A valid fence pointer stays alive under the RCU read lock >>>> 2. SIGNALED_BIT is set-once (it's never unset after being set). >>>> >>>> However, if it were, we wouldn't have dma_resv_test_singnaled(), now >>>> would we? :-) >>>> >>>> The moment you introduce ANY dma_fence recycling that recycles a >>>> dma_fence within a single RCU grace period, all your assumptions break >>>> down. SLAB_TYPESAFE_BY_RCU is just one way that i915 does this. We >>>> also have a little i915_request recycler to try and help with memory >>>> pressure scenarios in certain critical sections that also doesn't >>>> respect RCU grace periods. And, as mentioned multiple times, our >>>> recycling leaks into every other driver because, thanks to i915's >>>> choice, the above 4-line code snippet isn't valid ANYWHERE in the >>>> kernel. >>>> >>>> So the question I'm raising isn't so much about the rules today. >>>> Today, we live in the wild wild west where everything is YOLO. But >>>> where do we want to go? Do we like this wild west world? So we want >>>> more consistency under the RCU read lock? If so, what do we want the >>>> rules to be? >>>> >>>> One option would be to accept the wild-west world we live in and say >>>> "The RCU read lock gains you nothing. If you want to touch the guts >>>> of a dma_fence, take a reference". But, at that point, we're eating >>>> two atomics for every time someone wants to look at a dma_fence. Do >>>> we want that? >>>> >>>> Alternatively, and this what I think Daniel and I were trying to >>>> propose here, is that we place some constraints on dma_fence >>>> recycling. Specifically that, under the RCU read lock, the fence >>>> doesn't suddenly become a new fence. All of the immutability and >>>> once-mutability guarantees of various bits of dma_fence hold as long >>>> as you have the RCU read lock. >>> Yeah this is suboptimal. Too many potential bugs, not enough benefits. >>> >>> This entire __rcu business started so that there would be a lockless >>> way to get at fences, or at least the exclusive one. That did not >>> really pan out. I think we have a few options: >>> >>> - drop the idea of rcu/lockless dma-fence access outright. A quick >>> sequence of grabbing the lock, acquiring the dma_fence and then >>> dropping your lock again is probably plenty good. There's a lot of >>> call_rcu and other stuff we could probably delete. I have no idea what >>> the perf impact across all the drivers would be. >> The question is maybe not the perf impact, but rather if that is >> possible over all. >> >> IIRC we now have some cases in TTM where RCU is mandatory and we simply >> don't have any other choice than using it. > Adding Thomas Hellstrom. > > Where is that stuff? If we end up with all the dma_resv locking > complexity just for an oddball, then I think that would be rather big > bummer. This is during buffer destruction. See the call to dma_resv_copy_fences(). But that is basically just using a dma_resv function which accesses the object without taking a lock. >>> - try to make all drivers follow some stricter rules. The trouble is >>> that at least with radeon dma_fence callbacks aren't even very >>> reliable (that's why it has its own dma_fence_wait implementation), so >>> things are wobbly anyway. >>> >>> - live with the current situation, but radically delete all unsafe >>> interfaces. I.e. nothing is allowed to directly deref an rcu fence >>> pointer, everything goes through dma_fence_get_rcu_safe. The >>> kref_get_unless_zero would become an internal implementation detail. >>> Our "fast" and "lockless" dma_resv fence access stays a pile of >>> seqlock, retry loop and an a conditional atomic inc + atomic dec. The >>> only thing that's slightly faster would be dma_resv_test_signaled() >>> >>> - I guess minimally we should rename dma_fence_get_rcu to >>> dma_fence_tryget. It has nothing to do with rcu really, and the use is >>> very, very limited. >> I think what we should do is to use RCU internally in the dma_resv >> object but disallow drivers/frameworks to mess with that directly. >> >> In other words drivers should use one of the following: >> 1. dma_resv_wait_timeout() >> 2. dma_resv_test_signaled() >> 3. dma_resv_copy_fences() >> 4. dma_resv_get_fences() >> 5. dma_resv_for_each_fence() <- to be implemented >> 6. dma_resv_for_each_fence_unlocked() <- to be implemented >> >> Inside those functions we then make sure that we only save ways of >> accessing the RCU protected data structures. >> >> This way we only need to make sure that those accessor functions are >> sane and don't need to audit every driver individually. > Yeah better encapsulation for dma_resv sounds like a good thing, least > for all the other issues we've been discussing recently. I guess your > list is also missing the various "add/replace some more fences" > functions, but we have them already. > >> I can tackle implementing for the dma_res_for_each_fence()/_unlocked(). >> Already got a large bunch of that coded out anyway. > When/where do we need ot iterate over fences unlocked? Given how much > pain it is to get a consistent snapshot of the fences or fence state > (I've read the dma-buf poll implementation, and it looks a bit buggy > in that regard, but not sure, just as an example) and unlocked > iterator sounds very dangerous to me. This is to make implementation of the other functions easier. Currently they basically each roll their own loop implementation which at least for dma_resv_test_signaled() looks a bit questionable to me. Additionally to those we we have one more case in i915 and the unlocked polling implementation which I agree is a bit questionable as well. My idea is to have the problematic logic in the iterator and only give back fence which have a reference and are 100% sure the right one. Probably best if I show some code around to explain what I mean. Regards, Christian. > -Daniel