From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.4.0 (2014-02-07) on aws-us-west-2-korg-lkml-1.web.codeaurora.org X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-8.2 required=3.0 tests=BAYES_00,DKIMWL_WL_HIGH, DKIM_SIGNED,DKIM_VALID,DKIM_VALID_AU,MAILING_LIST_MULTI,SPF_HELO_NONE, SPF_PASS,USER_AGENT_SANE_2 autolearn=unavailable autolearn_force=no version=3.4.0 Received: from mail.kernel.org (mail.kernel.org [198.145.29.99]) by smtp.lore.kernel.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id F12C8C4361A for ; Fri, 14 May 2021 08:21:33 +0000 (UTC) Received: from vger.kernel.org (vger.kernel.org [23.128.96.18]) by mail.kernel.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id CE7BB61107 for ; Fri, 14 May 2021 08:21:33 +0000 (UTC) Received: (majordomo@vger.kernel.org) by vger.kernel.org via listexpand id S233501AbhENIWm (ORCPT ); Fri, 14 May 2021 04:22:42 -0400 Received: from mail.kernel.org ([198.145.29.99]:45708 "EHLO mail.kernel.org" rhost-flags-OK-OK-OK-OK) by vger.kernel.org with ESMTP id S233416AbhENIWk (ORCPT ); Fri, 14 May 2021 04:22:40 -0400 Received: by mail.kernel.org (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id C728061408; Fri, 14 May 2021 08:21:21 +0000 (UTC) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/simple; d=kernel.org; s=k20201202; t=1620980488; bh=gH2wh+Hc0GOhQOIRbo/h4JAX62sDUeKs2tmsR+5ILos=; h=Date:From:To:Cc:Subject:In-Reply-To:References:From; b=e4qbUbfx0hxY+yj5rwe10X7fv77kQb6ZtXwJRT57564V2F/AP6l30KEqmfnQ8Z9/m GbE6KTSFaLVgK/IALz8lgNCCJI09Wv6ypJxw7X8+NYsSH+qLTaA3rBVUJFbnXj6RkO OLP+toeaBJ59mDypgIfhUX1EfHY2OFa2Ex63sriWaBCbSg8WSO+y0qdrgc5mMfEUKi zoIKuKJCbIWchz7V1P1kNvQQPYr/hVEIXMXwl9v4IpEIdTp9mOKu3ZsGi5lbDjocf7 LN9AhGRwhMXdDuYb3SF+qI1QUoGfgKM56pIxwAOv5jsDOpM5r9sAA4fr4BFVLy6RmQ IhAi7M7Jw2dRw== Date: Fri, 14 May 2021 10:21:18 +0200 From: Mauro Carvalho Chehab To: David Woodhouse Cc: Linux Doc Mailing List , linux-kernel@vger.kernel.org, Jonathan Corbet , Mali DP Maintainers , alsa-devel@alsa-project.org, coresight@lists.linaro.org, dri-devel@lists.freedesktop.org, intel-gfx@lists.freedesktop.org, intel-wired-lan@lists.osuosl.org, keyrings@vger.kernel.org, kvm@vger.kernel.org, linux-acpi@vger.kernel.org, linux-arm-kernel@lists.infradead.org, linux-edac@vger.kernel.org, linux-ext4@vger.kernel.org, linux-f2fs-devel@lists.sourceforge.net, linux-hwmon@vger.kernel.org, linux-iio@vger.kernel.org, linux-input@vger.kernel.org, linux-integrity@vger.kernel.org, linux-media@vger.kernel.org, linux-pci@vger.kernel.org, linux-pm@vger.kernel.org, linux-rdma@vger.kernel.org, linux-sgx@vger.kernel.org, linux-usb@vger.kernel.org, mjpeg-users@lists.sourceforge.net, netdev@vger.kernel.org, rcu@vger.kernel.org Subject: Re: [PATCH v2 00/40] Use ASCII subset instead of UTF-8 alternate symbols Message-ID: <20210514102118.1b71bec3@coco.lan> In-Reply-To: References: X-Mailer: Claws Mail 3.17.8 (GTK+ 2.24.33; x86_64-redhat-linux-gnu) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Precedence: bulk List-ID: X-Mailing-List: linux-kernel@vger.kernel.org Em Wed, 12 May 2021 18:07:04 +0100 David Woodhouse escreveu: > On Wed, 2021-05-12 at 14:50 +0200, Mauro Carvalho Chehab wrote: > > Such conversion tools - plus some text editor like LibreOffice or simi= lar - have > > a set of rules that turns some typed ASCII characters into UTF-8 altern= atives, > > for instance converting commas into curly commas and adding non-breakab= le > > spaces. All of those are meant to produce better results when the text = is > > displayed in HTML or PDF formats. =20 >=20 > And don't we render our documentation into HTML or PDF formats?=20 Yes. > Are > some of those non-breaking spaces not actually *useful* for their > intended purpose? No. The thing is: non-breaking space can cause a lot of problems. We even had to disable Sphinx usage of non-breaking space for PDF outputs, as this was causing bad LaTeX/PDF outputs. See, commit: 3b4c963243b1 ("docs: conf.py: adjust the LaTeX document output= ") The afore mentioned patch disables Sphinx default behavior of using NON-BREAKABLE SPACE on literal blocks and strings, using this special setting: "parsedliteralwraps=3Dtrue". When NON-BREAKABLE SPACE were used on PDF outputs, several parts of=20 the media uAPI docs were violating the document margins by far, causing texts to be truncated. So, please **don't add NON-BREAKABLE SPACE**, unless you test (and keep testing it from time to time) if outputs on all formats are properly supporting it on different Sphinx versions. - Also, most of those came from conversion tools, together with other eccentricities, like the usage of U+FEFF (BOM) character at the start of some documents. The remaining ones seem to came from=20 cut-and-paste. For instance, bibliographic references (there are a couple of those on media) sometimes have NON-BREAKABLE SPACE. I'm pretty sure that those came from cut-and-pasting the document titles from their names at the original PDF documents or web pages that are referenced. > > While it is perfectly fine to use UTF-8 characters in Linux, and specia= lly at > > the documentation, it is better to stick to the ASCII subset on such > > particular case, due to a couple of reasons: > >=20 > > 1. it makes life easier for tools like grep; =20 >=20 > Barely, as noted, because of things like line feeds. You can use grep with "-z" to seek for multi-line strings(*), Like: $ grep -Pzl 'grace period started,\s*then' $(find Documentation/ -type f) Documentation/RCU/Design/Data-Structures/Data-Structures.rst (*) Unfortunately, while "git grep" also has a "-z" flag, it seems that this is (currently?) broken with regards of handling multili= nes: $ git grep -Pzl 'grace period started,\s*then' $ > > 2. they easier to edit with the some commonly used text/source > > code editors. =20 >=20 > That is nonsense. Any but the most broken and/or anachronistic > environments and editors will be just fine. Not really. I do use a lot of UTF-8 here, as I type texts in Portuguese, but I rely on the US-intl keyboard settings, that allow me to type as "'a" for =C3=A1. However, there's no shortcut for non-Latin UTF-codes, as far as I know. So, if would need to type a curly comma on the text editors I normally=20 use for development (vim, nano, kate), I would need to cut-and-paste it from somewhere[1]. [1] If I have a table with UTF-8 codes handy, I could type the UTF-8=20 number manually... However, it seems that this is currently broken=20 at least on Fedora 33 (with Mate Desktop and US intl keyboard with=20 dead keys). Here, U is not working. No idea why. I haven't=20 test it for *years*, as I din't see any reason why I would need to type UTF-8 characters by numbers until we started this thread. =20 In practice, on the very rare cases where I needed to write non-Latin utf-8 chars (maybe once in a year or so, Like when I would need to use a Greek letter or some weird symbol), there changes are high that I wouldn't remember its UTF-8 code. So, If I need to spend time to seek for an specific symbol, after finding it, I just cut-and-paste it. But even in the best case scenario where I know the UTF-8 and U works, if I wanted to use, for instance, a curly comma, the keystroke sequence would be: U201csome stringU201d That's a lot harder than typing and has a higher chances of mistakenly add a wrong symbol than just typing: "some string" Knowing that both will produce *exactly* the same output, why should I bother doing it the hard way? - Now, I'm not arguing that you can't use whatever UTF-8 symbol you want on your docs. I'm just saying that, now that the conversion=20 is over and a lot of documents ended getting some UTF-8 characters by accident, it is time for a cleanup. Thanks, Mauro From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.4.0 (2014-02-07) on aws-us-west-2-korg-lkml-1.web.codeaurora.org X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-6.2 required=3.0 tests=BAYES_00,DKIMWL_WL_HIGH, DKIM_SIGNED,DKIM_VALID,MAILING_LIST_MULTI,SPF_HELO_NONE,SPF_PASS, USER_AGENT_SANE_2 autolearn=no autolearn_force=no version=3.4.0 Received: from mail.kernel.org (mail.kernel.org [198.145.29.99]) by smtp.lore.kernel.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id EDEB5C433B4 for ; Fri, 14 May 2021 08:23:28 +0000 (UTC) Received: from desiato.infradead.org (desiato.infradead.org [90.155.92.199]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by mail.kernel.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 56AB261408 for ; Fri, 14 May 2021 08:23:28 +0000 (UTC) DMARC-Filter: OpenDMARC Filter v1.3.2 mail.kernel.org 56AB261408 Authentication-Results: mail.kernel.org; dmarc=fail (p=none dis=none) header.from=kernel.org 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Mauro Carvalho Chehab To: David Woodhouse Cc: Linux Doc Mailing List , linux-kernel@vger.kernel.org, Jonathan Corbet , Mali DP Maintainers , alsa-devel@alsa-project.org, coresight@lists.linaro.org, dri-devel@lists.freedesktop.org, intel-gfx@lists.freedesktop.org, intel-wired-lan@lists.osuosl.org, keyrings@vger.kernel.org, kvm@vger.kernel.org, linux-acpi@vger.kernel.org, linux-arm-kernel@lists.infradead.org, linux-edac@vger.kernel.org, linux-ext4@vger.kernel.org, linux-f2fs-devel@lists.sourceforge.net, linux-hwmon@vger.kernel.org, linux-iio@vger.kernel.org, linux-input@vger.kernel.org, linux-integrity@vger.kernel.org, linux-media@vger.kernel.org, linux-pci@vger.kernel.org, linux-pm@vger.kernel.org, linux-rdma@vger.kernel.org, linux-sgx@vger.kernel.org, linux-usb@vger.kernel.org, mjpeg-users@lists.sourceforge.net, netdev@vger.kernel.org, rcu@vger.kernel.org Subject: Re: [PATCH v2 00/40] Use ASCII subset instead of UTF-8 alternate symbols Message-ID: <20210514102118.1b71bec3@coco.lan> In-Reply-To: References: X-Mailer: Claws Mail 3.17.8 (GTK+ 2.24.33; x86_64-redhat-linux-gnu) MIME-Version: 1.0 X-CRM114-Version: 20100106-BlameMichelson ( TRE 0.8.0 (BSD) ) MR-646709E3 X-CRM114-CacheID: sfid-20210514_012129_699905_DFB91177 X-CRM114-Status: GOOD ( 32.25 ) X-BeenThere: linux-arm-kernel@lists.infradead.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.34 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 Sender: "linux-arm-kernel" Errors-To: linux-arm-kernel-bounces+linux-arm-kernel=archiver.kernel.org@lists.infradead.org RW0gV2VkLCAxMiBNYXkgMjAyMSAxODowNzowNCArMDEwMApEYXZpZCBXb29kaG91c2UgPGR3bXcy QGluZnJhZGVhZC5vcmc+IGVzY3JldmV1OgoKPiBPbiBXZWQsIDIwMjEtMDUtMTIgYXQgMTQ6NTAg KzAyMDAsIE1hdXJvIENhcnZhbGhvIENoZWhhYiB3cm90ZToKPiA+IFN1Y2ggY29udmVyc2lvbiB0 b29scyAtIHBsdXMgc29tZSB0ZXh0IGVkaXRvciBsaWtlIExpYnJlT2ZmaWNlICBvciBzaW1pbGFy 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(Postfix) with ESMTPSA id C728061408; Fri, 14 May 2021 08:21:21 +0000 (UTC) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/simple; d=kernel.org; s=k20201202; t=1620980488; bh=gH2wh+Hc0GOhQOIRbo/h4JAX62sDUeKs2tmsR+5ILos=; h=Date:From:To:Cc:Subject:In-Reply-To:References:From; b=e4qbUbfx0hxY+yj5rwe10X7fv77kQb6ZtXwJRT57564V2F/AP6l30KEqmfnQ8Z9/m GbE6KTSFaLVgK/IALz8lgNCCJI09Wv6ypJxw7X8+NYsSH+qLTaA3rBVUJFbnXj6RkO OLP+toeaBJ59mDypgIfhUX1EfHY2OFa2Ex63sriWaBCbSg8WSO+y0qdrgc5mMfEUKi zoIKuKJCbIWchz7V1P1kNvQQPYr/hVEIXMXwl9v4IpEIdTp9mOKu3ZsGi5lbDjocf7 LN9AhGRwhMXdDuYb3SF+qI1QUoGfgKM56pIxwAOv5jsDOpM5r9sAA4fr4BFVLy6RmQ IhAi7M7Jw2dRw== Date: Fri, 14 May 2021 10:21:18 +0200 From: Mauro Carvalho Chehab To: David Woodhouse Subject: Re: [PATCH v2 00/40] Use ASCII subset instead of UTF-8 alternate symbols Message-ID: <20210514102118.1b71bec3@coco.lan> In-Reply-To: References: X-Mailer: Claws Mail 3.17.8 (GTK+ 2.24.33; x86_64-redhat-linux-gnu) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Mailman-Approved-At: Fri, 14 May 2021 17:39:48 +0200 Cc: alsa-devel@alsa-project.org, kvm@vger.kernel.org, Linux Doc Mailing List , linux-iio@vger.kernel.org, linux-pci@vger.kernel.org, dri-devel@lists.freedesktop.org, keyrings@vger.kernel.org, linux-sgx@vger.kernel.org, Jonathan Corbet , linux-rdma@vger.kernel.org, linux-acpi@vger.kernel.org, Mali DP Maintainers , linux-input@vger.kernel.org, intel-wired-lan@lists.osuosl.org, linux-ext4@vger.kernel.org, intel-gfx@lists.freedesktop.org, linux-media@vger.kernel.org, linux-pm@vger.kernel.org, coresight@lists.linaro.org, rcu@vger.kernel.org, mjpeg-users@lists.sourceforge.net, linux-arm-kernel@lists.infradead.org, linux-edac@vger.kernel.org, linux-hwmon@vger.kernel.org, netdev@vger.kernel.org, linux-usb@vger.kernel.org, linux-kernel@vger.kernel.org, linux-f2fs-devel@lists.sourceforge.net, linux-integrity@vger.kernel.org X-BeenThere: alsa-devel@alsa-project.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: "Alsa-devel mailing list for ALSA developers - http://www.alsa-project.org" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: alsa-devel-bounces@alsa-project.org Sender: "Alsa-devel" Em Wed, 12 May 2021 18:07:04 +0100 David Woodhouse escreveu: > On Wed, 2021-05-12 at 14:50 +0200, Mauro Carvalho Chehab wrote: > > Such conversion tools - plus some text editor like LibreOffice or simi= lar - have > > a set of rules that turns some typed ASCII characters into UTF-8 altern= atives, > > for instance converting commas into curly commas and adding non-breakab= le > > spaces. All of those are meant to produce better results when the text = is > > displayed in HTML or PDF formats. =20 >=20 > And don't we render our documentation into HTML or PDF formats?=20 Yes. > Are > some of those non-breaking spaces not actually *useful* for their > intended purpose? No. The thing is: non-breaking space can cause a lot of problems. We even had to disable Sphinx usage of non-breaking space for PDF outputs, as this was causing bad LaTeX/PDF outputs. See, commit: 3b4c963243b1 ("docs: conf.py: adjust the LaTeX document output= ") The afore mentioned patch disables Sphinx default behavior of using NON-BREAKABLE SPACE on literal blocks and strings, using this special setting: "parsedliteralwraps=3Dtrue". When NON-BREAKABLE SPACE were used on PDF outputs, several parts of=20 the media uAPI docs were violating the document margins by far, causing texts to be truncated. So, please **don't add NON-BREAKABLE SPACE**, unless you test (and keep testing it from time to time) if outputs on all formats are properly supporting it on different Sphinx versions. - Also, most of those came from conversion tools, together with other eccentricities, like the usage of U+FEFF (BOM) character at the start of some documents. The remaining ones seem to came from=20 cut-and-paste. For instance, bibliographic references (there are a couple of those on media) sometimes have NON-BREAKABLE SPACE. I'm pretty sure that those came from cut-and-pasting the document titles from their names at the original PDF documents or web pages that are referenced. > > While it is perfectly fine to use UTF-8 characters in Linux, and specia= lly at > > the documentation, it is better to stick to the ASCII subset on such > > particular case, due to a couple of reasons: > >=20 > > 1. it makes life easier for tools like grep; =20 >=20 > Barely, as noted, because of things like line feeds. You can use grep with "-z" to seek for multi-line strings(*), Like: $ grep -Pzl 'grace period started,\s*then' $(find Documentation/ -type f) Documentation/RCU/Design/Data-Structures/Data-Structures.rst (*) Unfortunately, while "git grep" also has a "-z" flag, it seems that this is (currently?) broken with regards of handling multili= nes: $ git grep -Pzl 'grace period started,\s*then' $ > > 2. they easier to edit with the some commonly used text/source > > code editors. =20 >=20 > That is nonsense. Any but the most broken and/or anachronistic > environments and editors will be just fine. Not really. I do use a lot of UTF-8 here, as I type texts in Portuguese, but I rely on the US-intl keyboard settings, that allow me to type as "'a" for =C3=A1. However, there's no shortcut for non-Latin UTF-codes, as far as I know. So, if would need to type a curly comma on the text editors I normally=20 use for development (vim, nano, kate), I would need to cut-and-paste it from somewhere[1]. [1] If I have a table with UTF-8 codes handy, I could type the UTF-8=20 number manually... However, it seems that this is currently broken=20 at least on Fedora 33 (with Mate Desktop and US intl keyboard with=20 dead keys). Here, U is not working. No idea why. I haven't=20 test it for *years*, as I din't see any reason why I would need to type UTF-8 characters by numbers until we started this thread. =20 In practice, on the very rare cases where I needed to write non-Latin utf-8 chars (maybe once in a year or so, Like when I would need to use a Greek letter or some weird symbol), there changes are high that I wouldn't remember its UTF-8 code. So, If I need to spend time to seek for an specific symbol, after finding it, I just cut-and-paste it. But even in the best case scenario where I know the UTF-8 and U works, if I wanted to use, for instance, a curly comma, the keystroke sequence would be: U201csome stringU201d That's a lot harder than typing and has a higher chances of mistakenly add a wrong symbol than just typing: "some string" Knowing that both will produce *exactly* the same output, why should I bother doing it the hard way? - Now, I'm not arguing that you can't use whatever UTF-8 symbol you want on your docs. I'm just saying that, now that the conversion=20 is over and a lot of documents ended getting some UTF-8 characters by accident, it is time for a cleanup. 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08:21:49 +0000 Received: by mail.kernel.org (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id C728061408; Fri, 14 May 2021 08:21:21 +0000 (UTC) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/simple; d=kernel.org; s=k20201202; t=1620980488; bh=gH2wh+Hc0GOhQOIRbo/h4JAX62sDUeKs2tmsR+5ILos=; h=Date:From:To:Cc:Subject:In-Reply-To:References:From; b=e4qbUbfx0hxY+yj5rwe10X7fv77kQb6ZtXwJRT57564V2F/AP6l30KEqmfnQ8Z9/m GbE6KTSFaLVgK/IALz8lgNCCJI09Wv6ypJxw7X8+NYsSH+qLTaA3rBVUJFbnXj6RkO OLP+toeaBJ59mDypgIfhUX1EfHY2OFa2Ex63sriWaBCbSg8WSO+y0qdrgc5mMfEUKi zoIKuKJCbIWchz7V1P1kNvQQPYr/hVEIXMXwl9v4IpEIdTp9mOKu3ZsGi5lbDjocf7 LN9AhGRwhMXdDuYb3SF+qI1QUoGfgKM56pIxwAOv5jsDOpM5r9sAA4fr4BFVLy6RmQ IhAi7M7Jw2dRw== Date: Fri, 14 May 2021 10:21:18 +0200 From: Mauro Carvalho Chehab To: David Woodhouse Message-ID: <20210514102118.1b71bec3@coco.lan> In-Reply-To: References: X-Mailer: Claws Mail 3.17.8 (GTK+ 2.24.33; x86_64-redhat-linux-gnu) MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Headers-End: 1lhT4t-007wZI-3s Subject: Re: [f2fs-dev] [PATCH v2 00/40] Use ASCII 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smtp.mailfrom=intel-gfx-bounces@lists.freedesktop.org Received: from gabe.freedesktop.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by gabe.freedesktop.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id E6A186EE59; Fri, 14 May 2021 12:13:37 +0000 (UTC) Received: from mail.kernel.org (mail.kernel.org [198.145.29.99]) by gabe.freedesktop.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id D8E3C6E284; Fri, 14 May 2021 08:21:28 +0000 (UTC) Received: by mail.kernel.org (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id C728061408; Fri, 14 May 2021 08:21:21 +0000 (UTC) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/simple; d=kernel.org; s=k20201202; t=1620980488; bh=gH2wh+Hc0GOhQOIRbo/h4JAX62sDUeKs2tmsR+5ILos=; h=Date:From:To:Cc:Subject:In-Reply-To:References:From; b=e4qbUbfx0hxY+yj5rwe10X7fv77kQb6ZtXwJRT57564V2F/AP6l30KEqmfnQ8Z9/m GbE6KTSFaLVgK/IALz8lgNCCJI09Wv6ypJxw7X8+NYsSH+qLTaA3rBVUJFbnXj6RkO OLP+toeaBJ59mDypgIfhUX1EfHY2OFa2Ex63sriWaBCbSg8WSO+y0qdrgc5mMfEUKi zoIKuKJCbIWchz7V1P1kNvQQPYr/hVEIXMXwl9v4IpEIdTp9mOKu3ZsGi5lbDjocf7 LN9AhGRwhMXdDuYb3SF+qI1QUoGfgKM56pIxwAOv5jsDOpM5r9sAA4fr4BFVLy6RmQ IhAi7M7Jw2dRw== Date: Fri, 14 May 2021 10:21:18 +0200 From: Mauro Carvalho Chehab To: David Woodhouse Message-ID: <20210514102118.1b71bec3@coco.lan> In-Reply-To: References: X-Mailer: Claws Mail 3.17.8 (GTK+ 2.24.33; x86_64-redhat-linux-gnu) MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailman-Approved-At: Fri, 14 May 2021 12:13:37 +0000 Subject: Re: [Intel-gfx] [PATCH v2 00/40] Use ASCII subset instead of UTF-8 alternate symbols X-BeenThere: intel-gfx@lists.freedesktop.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Intel graphics driver community testing & development List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Cc: alsa-devel@alsa-project.org, kvm@vger.kernel.org, Linux Doc Mailing List , linux-iio@vger.kernel.org, linux-pci@vger.kernel.org, dri-devel@lists.freedesktop.org, keyrings@vger.kernel.org, linux-sgx@vger.kernel.org, Jonathan Corbet , linux-rdma@vger.kernel.org, linux-acpi@vger.kernel.org, Mali DP Maintainers , linux-input@vger.kernel.org, intel-wired-lan@lists.osuosl.org, linux-ext4@vger.kernel.org, intel-gfx@lists.freedesktop.org, linux-media@vger.kernel.org, linux-pm@vger.kernel.org, coresight@lists.linaro.org, rcu@vger.kernel.org, mjpeg-users@lists.sourceforge.net, linux-arm-kernel@lists.infradead.org, linux-edac@vger.kernel.org, linux-hwmon@vger.kernel.org, netdev@vger.kernel.org, linux-usb@vger.kernel.org, linux-kernel@vger.kernel.org, linux-f2fs-devel@lists.sourceforge.net, linux-integrity@vger.kernel.org Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 Errors-To: intel-gfx-bounces@lists.freedesktop.org Sender: "Intel-gfx" RW0gV2VkLCAxMiBNYXkgMjAyMSAxODowNzowNCArMDEwMApEYXZpZCBXb29kaG91c2UgPGR3bXcy QGluZnJhZGVhZC5vcmc+IGVzY3JldmV1OgoKPiBPbiBXZWQsIDIwMjEtMDUtMTIgYXQgMTQ6NTAg KzAyMDAsIE1hdXJvIENhcnZhbGhvIENoZWhhYiB3cm90ZToKPiA+IFN1Y2ggY29udmVyc2lvbiB0 b29scyAtIHBsdXMgc29tZSB0ZXh0IGVkaXRvciBsaWtlIExpYnJlT2ZmaWNlICBvciBzaW1pbGFy 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IGRvY3VtZW50cyBlbmRlZCBnZXR0aW5nIHNvbWUgVVRGLTggY2hhcmFjdGVycwpieSBhY2NpZGVu dCwgaXQgaXMgdGltZSBmb3IgYSBjbGVhbnVwLgoKVGhhbmtzLApNYXVybwpfX19fX19fX19fX19f X19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fXwpJbnRlbC1nZnggbWFpbGluZyBsaXN0 CkludGVsLWdmeEBsaXN0cy5mcmVlZGVza3RvcC5vcmcKaHR0cHM6Ly9saXN0cy5mcmVlZGVza3Rv cC5vcmcvbWFpbG1hbi9saXN0aW5mby9pbnRlbC1nZngK From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 From: Mauro Carvalho Chehab Date: Fri, 14 May 2021 10:21:18 +0200 Subject: [Intel-wired-lan] [PATCH v2 00/40] Use ASCII subset instead of UTF-8 alternate symbols In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20210514102118.1b71bec3@coco.lan> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit To: intel-wired-lan@osuosl.org List-ID: Em Wed, 12 May 2021 18:07:04 +0100 David Woodhouse escreveu: > On Wed, 2021-05-12 at 14:50 +0200, Mauro Carvalho Chehab wrote: > > Such conversion tools - plus some text editor like LibreOffice or similar - have > > a set of rules that turns some typed ASCII characters into UTF-8 alternatives, > > for instance converting commas into curly commas and adding non-breakable > > spaces. All of those are meant to produce better results when the text is > > displayed in HTML or PDF formats. > > And don't we render our documentation into HTML or PDF formats? Yes. > Are > some of those non-breaking spaces not actually *useful* for their > intended purpose? No. The thing is: non-breaking space can cause a lot of problems. We even had to disable Sphinx usage of non-breaking space for PDF outputs, as this was causing bad LaTeX/PDF outputs. See, commit: 3b4c963243b1 ("docs: conf.py: adjust the LaTeX document output") The afore mentioned patch disables Sphinx default behavior of using NON-BREAKABLE SPACE on literal blocks and strings, using this special setting: "parsedliteralwraps=true". When NON-BREAKABLE SPACE were used on PDF outputs, several parts of the media uAPI docs were violating the document margins by far, causing texts to be truncated. So, please **don't add NON-BREAKABLE SPACE**, unless you test (and keep testing it from time to time) if outputs on all formats are properly supporting it on different Sphinx versions. - Also, most of those came from conversion tools, together with other eccentricities, like the usage of U+FEFF (BOM) character at the start of some documents. The remaining ones seem to came from cut-and-paste. For instance, bibliographic references (there are a couple of those on media) sometimes have NON-BREAKABLE SPACE. I'm pretty sure that those came from cut-and-pasting the document titles from their names at the original PDF documents or web pages that are referenced. > > While it is perfectly fine to use UTF-8 characters in Linux, and specially at > > the documentation, it is better to stick to the ASCII subset on such > > particular case, due to a couple of reasons: > > > > 1. it makes life easier for tools like grep; > > Barely, as noted, because of things like line feeds. You can use grep with "-z" to seek for multi-line strings(*), Like: $ grep -Pzl 'grace period started,\s*then' $(find Documentation/ -type f) Documentation/RCU/Design/Data-Structures/Data-Structures.rst (*) Unfortunately, while "git grep" also has a "-z" flag, it seems that this is (currently?) broken with regards of handling multilines: $ git grep -Pzl 'grace period started,\s*then' $ > > 2. they easier to edit with the some commonly used text/source > > code editors. > > That is nonsense. Any but the most broken and/or anachronistic > environments and editors will be just fine. Not really. I do use a lot of UTF-8 here, as I type texts in Portuguese, but I rely on the US-intl keyboard settings, that allow me to type as "'a" for ?. However, there's no shortcut for non-Latin UTF-codes, as far as I know. So, if would need to type a curly comma on the text editors I normally use for development (vim, nano, kate), I would need to cut-and-paste it from somewhere[1]. [1] If I have a table with UTF-8 codes handy, I could type the UTF-8 number manually... However, it seems that this is currently broken at least on Fedora 33 (with Mate Desktop and US intl keyboard with dead keys). Here, U is not working. No idea why. I haven't test it for *years*, as I din't see any reason why I would need to type UTF-8 characters by numbers until we started this thread. In practice, on the very rare cases where I needed to write non-Latin utf-8 chars (maybe once in a year or so, Like when I would need to use a Greek letter or some weird symbol), there changes are high that I wouldn't remember its UTF-8 code. So, If I need to spend time to seek for an specific symbol, after finding it, I just cut-and-paste it. But even in the best case scenario where I know the UTF-8 and U works, if I wanted to use, for instance, a curly comma, the keystroke sequence would be: U201csome stringU201d That's a lot harder than typing and has a higher chances of mistakenly add a wrong symbol than just typing: "some string" Knowing that both will produce *exactly* the same output, why should I bother doing it the hard way? - Now, I'm not arguing that you can't use whatever UTF-8 symbol you want on your docs. I'm just saying that, now that the conversion is over and a lot of documents ended getting some UTF-8 characters by accident, it is time for a cleanup. Thanks, Mauro